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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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this is truly a miracle Richard we're

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back Stefan we are back this is amazing

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after all these years you know it took

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us how many years did it take us to

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escape from the tank Oh decades it was

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last millennium sometimes it was but

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we're out now we're out of the tank and

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we've gone into the zone the zone the

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skeptic zone it's amazing it's an it the

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whole world is a skeptics only I think

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so it's become like that the it's just

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spreading everywhere the skepticism is

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zoning out then I'm zoning it I'm in the

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zone right now and I'm in the zone too

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yeah it's great to be back and thanks

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for having me back to because I thought

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for a while the other wheel gone were

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gone forever well after the last series

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the tank podcast I was gone for it yes

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you were my very hard on that and I

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thought it had a little break and I

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thought to myself what the people want

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what do our fans one out there they want

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a podcast they can listen to on their

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pods why they're exercising exciting

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driving eating anything reading of

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whatever we're eating and listening at

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the same time exactly no it's true

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because I mean the vaad casting is great

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and but of course it's it's sort of more

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ubiquitous to have audio because he can

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yeah you can actually listen to it

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anyway exactly so all you people right

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now who are walking your dog or on the

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treadmill all right thank you we're on

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the treadmill yep welcome to the new

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reserves own the skeptic zone and what a

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place we are have created it's it's a

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global enterprise we've got people all

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over the world submitting stories

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producing content and we're set to be

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quite a phenomenon in this world of

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skepticism I hope so I hope so we've got

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our reporters as from the old days of

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the skeptic tank and then the tank we

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have our reporters my koala hand here in

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Sydney with not dr. Karen stalls no in

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the United States where he would have

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Kylie Sturgis and Perth excellent as

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well we've got Jason cook in the gold

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coast huh let's get better we've and

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then we've got out to new friends on the

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show we've got dr. Rachel Dunlop here in

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Sydney yes you've got

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enduro so our family is gross growing

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it's going and but not only that but the

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connections you've been making it in our

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little little interlude that we've had a

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quiet you and if you've created a if

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you've been everywhere you haven't any

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idea where I was I went to Atlanta

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Georgia for dragoncon are and i took

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part in the skeptical activities there

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and in fact the first part of our

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three-part story about dragon condoms

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the zone life huh is coming up directly

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after this where we have a little chat

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and then in the coming weeks we

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interview dr. ginger campbell from the

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brain science podcast and a bad

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astronomer fuel plates or but exactly

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you've just met so many people over

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there almost for those of you people who

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haven't been the Dragon Con make sure

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you go next year it's incredible and

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he's me just thinking all us having was

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a hiatus yeah and I don't know it was

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amazing it was amazing so what are we

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gonna install what what's happening this

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inaugural skeptics own well I'll got the

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zone live which is coming up in a moment

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we've got a interview of the guy called

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mark roberts or mark gravy Roberts now

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he's an interesting skeptic because he's

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a skeptic of skeptics he just can't

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think of the 911 conspiracy skeptics

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because they have some over D

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far-fetched ideas so hang on the

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skeptics the other the skeptics think

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that the 911 wasn't a terrorist attack

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well it depends if you think the word

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skeptic is used a bit funny here see

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anybody can call themselves as I guess

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our I'm skeptical that it was a

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terrorist attack i think it wasn't one

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or you could say I'm skeptical that it

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was well I think it wasn't why I know

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would have been one but it wasn't yeah

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I'll get the next week on is that are

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confusing it's go that's how the

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mathematical dice mi want to look I sec

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that it's a great interview that was

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conducted in New York that's coming up a

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little later in the show and then we've

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got our first think tank section now

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this is a live chat with the Michael

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wall hand dr. Rachel dumb up and myself

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a couple of bottles of wines and beers

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along the wedding philosophical and the

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same time we are it's all coming up on

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today's episode of The Critic zone and

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NZ you're getting tanked and the tech so

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the tank still still makes a bit of a

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present tank still floating about there

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and all the past episodes are still

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online you can watch Stefan and I doing

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the whole tank but we look a lot we look

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a lot better on that on pocket I think

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we look better on podcast so for this

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episode for the 26th of sep tember 2008

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why don't we just get into dessert let's

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get stuck in I'm in the zone already

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thank you Richard yes here we are at

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dragon con 2008 with Karen stalls no dr.

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welcome to the first live broadcast of

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what was that well I think this is the

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first time we've been together in the

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same room I think I've realigned or

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something we are an international show I

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mean every podcast today is in national

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podcast of course just to fill everybody

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in and our fans from the old show about

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the old show that the the tank we've

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decided to have a new name because the

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tank was cute and especially when it was

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the skeptic tank it was a cute name

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skeptic tank sounded good we had to drop

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the skeptic from the skeptic tank

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because it was getting confused with

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other people out there calling

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themselves skeptic tank so recently we

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all got together online and we decided

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on a new name and there were many many

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many names thrown back and forth like

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Albert the albert show absolutely the

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Kylie show the Kylie show no way no one

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watched that and until almost last week

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it was going to be called something

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completely different um it was going to

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be called the Skip think the Skip think

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what we thought of tokens skeptics

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Garcia and we thought oh no that's just

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a bit too tokenistic so yeah and we were

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getting to the stage where we were just

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about to call it anything because we

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couldn't agree on a name and then

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somebody and who was it was it Stefan I

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think deafen thank you Stefan came up

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with a new name skeptic zone and it just

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sort of yeah why not it worked and he

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came up if you can see the people here

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in the audience with us can see all the

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range of logos on the t-shirts we have I

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like the one with the brain skeptics own

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thinking caps required quite like them a

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new segment within the show is going to

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be called the think tank we were

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thinking about using the name think tank

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and what we're going to do back in

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Sydney Australia we're going to every

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week there's for skeptics going to meet

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in a pub or a restaurant or something

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like that one

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accra phone a couple of bottles of wine

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and discuss issues of the day and we

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have some new people taking part in that

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dr. Rachel Dunlop who is a medical

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researcher in Australia ow you know who

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yeah and a good friend of ours amanda

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rose and michael wala han who's one of

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our reporters from the old show

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basically it's just to discuss issues of

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the day a short segment within the new

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show and we're looking forward to that

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if you're not familiar with the show we

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have an interesting sort of aspect in

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that we have an international reporter

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in the form of Karen stalls and dr.

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Karen stalls know and obviously we have

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people from all different sides of

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Australia in fact the only two people

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were able to meet regularly a bubbly my

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koala hand and Richard Saunders who are

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both me yeah we're never together in the

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same room it just doesn't happen this is

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the first time i met dr. karen stole her

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for example here at DragonCon i can't

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stand you either oh god we have to share

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a room yeah she hasn't when Jen Bunney

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years I was sharing a room with him on

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the first night and the floors here are

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not what they're cracked up to be I

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could get into that yeah there's a

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little pyramid of pillows and I said oh

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Richard Richard all right now for those

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of you listening and those of you here

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who would have known the old show just

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recently over the last year it was

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purely a video-based one on YouTube

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that's still going to continue in some

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forms we're going to have it's going to

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be an audio show now but we're going to

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have special video reports because it's

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so much fun to do video so we're going

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to say here's here's our show if you

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want to see the extra footage the extra

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features free go to youtube it's all

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there and you can watch yourselves if

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you happen to be in it or whatever the

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case may be and all the old episodes

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that we filmed us are going to stay

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there forever at that website which is

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tank vodcast wordpress com and you can

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still comment on them and watch them all

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so that's not going away you did some

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great reports Karen and Kylie they both

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had video cameras Carly would film

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reports in Western Australia mostly

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there was one she did where she went to

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the beach with a picture of James Randi

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and was asking bikini women who this man

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was it's funny to remember this one

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thing yeah it's funny that you remember

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the bikini women asked a whole pile of

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people

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anything else yeah but yes it stands out

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yeah it was a gorgeous group of five

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young ladies who I showed it let's run

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give yourself Phil Plait and James Randi

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and they said we have no idea who he is

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and they happened to be American and I

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said sorry we're not from around here

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and I said well two of them up from

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around here either and they said are

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they world leaders and I said I'm

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certain james randi phil plait would be

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very flattered to to think that they got

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them yeah they think so yeah and so that

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was terrific so Karen would film her

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stuff on a little mini DV camera and

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send me the tapes I'd get them the day

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later in the post and I could edit them

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from there but dr. Karen stalls no she

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was filming with a little digital

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recorder that's right a small wonder RCA

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just little pocket video camera pocket

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video camera and to get me the stories

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she would ftp them put them up on a

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server and then I could download them

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and edit them from there now you Karen

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you had some interesting experiences

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when you were filming stories for the

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show I like the one where you did the

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protests in San Francisco can you tell

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everybody about synonymous versus

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Scientology if you remember that I

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filmed the activities in San Francisco

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and interviewed people there I've been

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to the Alamo in San Antonio and attended

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a ghost to her and I spoke with someone

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who conducted those to us I interviewed

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paranormalists at a paranormal

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conference in Las Vegas lots of things

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I've been touring the country and

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sussing out all of this so much here so

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much fodder here you're just fodder

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people but uh I i did also appreciate

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some of the stories that Karen filed

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where she would interview paranormal

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people in very religious people just to

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get their take on their point of view

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and you will never we can make lots of

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assumptions about what these people

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believe I think if we're skeptics we

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need to be know what we're skeptical

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about and so I like to hear everyone's

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versions and everyone's opinions and

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beliefs there is a line some people take

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and i take this line sometimes we if you

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give people enough rope i feed although

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yeah yeah with my articles can work

295
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where you you take them to task if they

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have some silly belief or whatever the

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case may be but sometimes it works if

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you just say well really can you tell me

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more about it and they can get

300
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themselves tangled up into into knots

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when they try to explain

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they really think yeah maybe their

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00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:45,090
thoughts aren't even clarified and this

304
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is a good way of understanding what they

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00:11:51,410 --> 00:11:48,590
believe and correcting them if we can

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00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:51,420
yeah but it's interesting to when you're

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running around with a little camera like

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you've seen the flip cameras and the

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little wonder bitty ones you can get

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these days you can get away with a lot

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00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:00,870
but if you turn up with a big camera

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people are nervous or they don't want to

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00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:05,400
talk to you but these days the quality

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on both the not not too dissimilar so I

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00:12:13,460 --> 00:12:11,820
when I was doing interviews I found it

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so much easier if I just had something

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00:12:17,930 --> 00:12:16,020
resting in my hand that looked tiny and

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insignificant people weren't worried but

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00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:20,010
you turn I've got a professional camera

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at home sort of sits up here no one

321
00:12:27,530 --> 00:12:25,050
wants to know no one wants to know about

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that so you used a little mini DV camera

323
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:30,330
didn't you yes I just let me see the one

324
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that i have is slightly smaller than the

325
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camera up there honest way and that was

326
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due to your recommendation and easy to

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00:12:42,020 --> 00:12:39,330
charge up easy to throw in the batteries

328
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like to hold and I would just go around

329
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:44,880
I must admit I'm rather selfish in terms

330
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of my reports because I go out and find

331
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things that I like and I like

332
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superstition so I yeah yeah I just say

333
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:54,870
to myself okay what yeah I must admit

334
00:12:58,130 --> 00:12:56,610
I'm a little envious of Karen because

335
00:13:00,080 --> 00:12:58,140
she goes out and find things which are

336
00:13:01,580 --> 00:13:00,090
current and relevant and there's a said

337
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there's so much stuff here in America oh

338
00:13:05,510 --> 00:13:03,360
yeah there was just no way I go anywhere

339
00:13:07,820 --> 00:13:05,520
near a Scientology really I used to live

340
00:13:10,370 --> 00:13:07,830
in Berkeley so I love those yeah

341
00:13:12,050 --> 00:13:10,380
interesting central but I just too

342
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:12,060
scared to go near a Scientology rally

343
00:13:14,990 --> 00:13:13,770
even though I know that you know what

344
00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:15,000
the anonymous group are doing a great

345
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and I have a few friends who are

346
00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:19,260
involved in that but in my case I

347
00:13:23,810 --> 00:13:21,690
thought to myself okay I'm intrigued by

348
00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:23,820
the academic side and I thought well

349
00:13:27,380 --> 00:13:25,620
nobody ever seems to talk much about

350
00:13:29,930 --> 00:13:27,390
these are superstitions and sports

351
00:13:33,710 --> 00:13:29,940
superstitions and I wanted to find out

352
00:13:38,390 --> 00:13:33,720
more about why so many highly highly

353
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:38,400
intelligent elite athletes and brilliant

354
00:13:42,620 --> 00:13:40,890
theatre people are engaged in these

355
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sorts of behaviors and so that was a

356
00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:45,210
focus of mind for a time and other

357
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:46,860
things that I've done oh let me see

358
00:13:51,020 --> 00:13:48,720
speak with Tim Minchin team mention i'm

359
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interested in the art side i recall that

360
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:53,770
Richard did a fantastic report was it

361
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upon the art and science as scheduled

362
00:14:00,760 --> 00:13:58,550
all my reports of fantastic other which

363
00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:00,770
one do you mean exactly one there was a

364
00:14:04,540 --> 00:14:02,030
particular report I believe those on

365
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:04,550
skeptic amp and it talked about how we

366
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:06,710
need to extend beyond just the science

367
00:14:10,930 --> 00:14:08,720
and start having a look at how many

368
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:10,940
different fields can contribute to

369
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:13,570
skepticism and of course comedians

370
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:16,250
artists actors I mean how many people

371
00:14:20,770 --> 00:14:17,690
have just hopped onto YouTube and found

372
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:20,780
a fantabulous comedy routine or an actor

373
00:14:26,290 --> 00:14:22,850
saying something I mean even David

374
00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:26,300
Tennant talking to music Owens henan

375
00:14:31,180 --> 00:14:28,460
what oh if you want me to I'll give it a

376
00:14:33,130 --> 00:14:31,190
try you know no but David Tennant saying

377
00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:33,140
you know horoscopes a load of garbage

378
00:14:36,130 --> 00:14:34,880
you know something like a great site the

379
00:14:38,350 --> 00:14:36,140
skepticism though because there are so

380
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:38,360
many actors and writers and people

381
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:40,250
identifying with skepticism in with

382
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:43,040
atheism so it makes people stop and say

383
00:14:46,060 --> 00:14:44,480
okay that little sound bite that's come

384
00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:46,070
out there maybe I should find out more

385
00:14:50,410 --> 00:14:47,750
about it so we should talk to these

386
00:14:52,270 --> 00:14:50,420
people and why why they say it's also

387
00:14:53,950 --> 00:14:52,280
interesting to consider that in the old

388
00:14:56,830 --> 00:14:53,960
days when people are making a TV show

389
00:15:00,040 --> 00:14:56,840
you would go out be aired maybe you

390
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:00,050
would be in rerun and it's not until now

391
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,910
you can buy the dvds of all these old

392
00:15:05,410 --> 00:15:03,680
shows but when we produce a show for the

393
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:05,420
internet it's there it's there it's

394
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:07,610
there it's not going away you can always

395
00:15:12,070 --> 00:15:10,130
have access to it yeah I've got about

396
00:15:14,350 --> 00:15:12,080
five YouTube videos of this conference

397
00:15:16,630 --> 00:15:14,360
up already online I was trying to upload

398
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:16,640
one this morning but it froze so there

399
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:19,760
should be de tu parte 1 up on later

400
00:15:25,570 --> 00:15:22,850
today I hope oh good yeah now it's time

401
00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:25,580
for a commercial break me the Australian

402
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:27,950
skeptic magazine the skeptic brought to

403
00:15:32,260 --> 00:15:29,930
you by Australian skeptics comes out

404
00:15:33,970 --> 00:15:32,270
four times a year dr. Karen stoles no

405
00:15:38,829 --> 00:15:33,980
will become the new editor of the

406
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,449
you can subscribe to the skeptic

407
00:15:46,759 --> 00:15:43,440
magazine only forty four dollars the

408
00:15:52,759 --> 00:15:46,769
third best in the world what third base

409
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:52,769
maker's you see thank you Karen until I

410
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:54,570
take over see what we have got a copy of

411
00:15:58,759 --> 00:15:56,220
skeptical Inquirer right here on the

412
00:16:00,889 --> 00:15:58,769
data and i have been selling skeptic

413
00:16:02,660 --> 00:16:00,899
magazine over at the other horse an icy

414
00:16:04,670 --> 00:16:02,670
we have to acknowledge it yes you can

415
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:04,680
subscribe institutes be quiet this is a

416
00:16:09,199 --> 00:16:06,810
paid site you can subscribe to the

417
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:09,209
skeptic magazine the australian skeptic

418
00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:13,290
magazine by visiting w WC kept akame you

419
00:16:19,850 --> 00:16:16,310
and we spill our skeptics were they k

420
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:19,860
not a see as it happens but I know

421
00:16:24,740 --> 00:16:21,440
sincerely recommend that you visit

422
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:24,750
skeptics calm today you and check out

423
00:16:27,470 --> 00:16:26,010
the website check out Australian

424
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:27,480
skeptics we have videos and free

425
00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:29,040
downloads and all sorts of things hmm

426
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:31,560
see what we've been up to down under and

427
00:16:34,670 --> 00:16:32,760
we're just going to get better and

428
00:16:45,969 --> 00:16:34,680
better with Karen now at the Harlington

429
00:16:52,969 --> 00:16:49,309
you're listening to the skeptic zone I'm

430
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:52,979
Brian Dunning from sceptile calm when

431
00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:55,199
I'm not tuned into the skeptic zone I'm

432
00:16:59,989 --> 00:16:58,199
recording thus kept I'd podcast doing

433
00:17:01,809 --> 00:16:59,999
what I can to further knowledge by

434
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:01,819
blasting away the widespread

435
00:17:07,159 --> 00:17:04,319
pseudo-sciences that infect popular

436
00:17:09,230 --> 00:17:07,169
culture I've also compiled a 40-minute

437
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:09,240
educational video on critical thinking

438
00:17:16,189 --> 00:17:12,480
called here be dragons at here be

439
00:17:19,220 --> 00:17:16,199
dragons movie.com I hope you check those

440
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:19,230
out and I hope you enjoy the skeptic

441
00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:26,850
zone hello this is Kylie Sturgis with my

442
00:17:31,279 --> 00:17:28,830
first report for the new skeptic zone

443
00:17:33,259 --> 00:17:31,289
mark robertson amateur historian and

444
00:17:35,419 --> 00:17:33,269
former new york city tour guide says

445
00:17:37,070 --> 00:17:35,429
that he is an ordinary man but he's one

446
00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:37,080
who took up an extraordinary challenge

447
00:17:41,570 --> 00:17:39,750
in 2006 there was a peak in pseudo

448
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:41,580
scientific and historical revisionism

449
00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:43,919
propagated by conspiracy theorists about

450
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:45,960
the tragedies of September to the 11th

451
00:17:51,379 --> 00:17:49,679
2001 often known as 911 these popular

452
00:17:52,850 --> 00:17:51,389
theories include the claims that the US

453
00:17:54,919 --> 00:17:52,860
government committed or deliberately

454
00:17:56,419 --> 00:17:54,929
allowed the attacks that no headliner

455
00:17:58,759 --> 00:17:56,429
hit the Pentagon or crashed in a field

456
00:18:00,289 --> 00:17:58,769
in Pennsylvania and most persistently

457
00:18:02,509 --> 00:18:00,299
that the World Trade Center buildings

458
00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:02,519
were destroyed by explosives and not by

459
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:05,250
damage and fire so in response to these

460
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:07,350
groups Mark Roberts also known by the

461
00:18:11,389 --> 00:18:09,330
name gravy on several internet forums

462
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:11,399
was inspired to challenge the false

463
00:18:17,749 --> 00:18:14,610
claims of the 911 truth movement much of

464
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:17,759
his work can be seen online at WTC 7

465
00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:21,360
lies Google pages com in this exclusive

466
00:18:25,249 --> 00:18:23,460
interview taped in New York whilst I was

467
00:18:26,769 --> 00:18:25,259
traveling to dragoncon to present with

468
00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:26,779
other members of the skeptic zone

469
00:18:31,519 --> 00:18:28,830
psychology professor and fulbright

470
00:18:34,009 --> 00:18:31,529
scholar dr. mark n spoke to mike roberts

471
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:34,019
about his experiences dr. hen has

472
00:18:37,820 --> 00:18:35,850
contributed to many online discussions

473
00:18:40,159 --> 00:18:37,830
about the psychology behind belief and

474
00:18:42,379 --> 00:18:40,169
conspiracy theories and he inspired me

475
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:42,389
to film this exclusive for the skeptic

476
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:43,730
zone

477
00:18:49,390 --> 00:18:46,930
is it as I understand that may be wrong

478
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:49,400
no you don't have an area of expertise

479
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:51,770
in these things but you know how to

480
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:54,650
research you know how to find the

481
00:18:59,440 --> 00:18:56,810
experts and kidney is what I do for a

482
00:19:01,810 --> 00:18:59,450
living I'm an amateur historian and I

483
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:01,820
spend most a lot of my day doing

484
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:04,970
research online it's astonishing that I

485
00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:07,280
never came across these conspiracy

486
00:19:10,930 --> 00:19:08,510
theories when they were starting out in

487
00:19:12,370 --> 00:19:10,940
2006 because i was looking at things

488
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:12,380
about the World Trade Center all the

489
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:15,290
time i was giving tours there you know

490
00:19:19,540 --> 00:19:18,080
every week many times a week at the time

491
00:19:20,860 --> 00:19:19,550
that i got involved in this i was there

492
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:20,870
every single day at the World Trade

493
00:19:24,820 --> 00:19:22,490
Center and no one had ever asked me

494
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:24,830
about these conspiracy theories so it

495
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:27,110
wasn't until I signed up at the j reform

496
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:31,370
that that immediately this stuff came

497
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:34,250
came about and and someone said you seen

498
00:19:41,380 --> 00:19:37,850
this movie loose change and said no and

499
00:19:43,780 --> 00:19:41,390
I said driving me crazy and and I was so

500
00:19:45,220 --> 00:19:43,790
I watched it and drove me crazy all so I

501
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:45,230
went to their form and got kicked off

502
00:19:51,310 --> 00:19:47,570
promptly because you can't be presenting

503
00:19:52,990 --> 00:19:51,320
facts to these people and I thought that

504
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:53,000
was kind of odd an odd way of searching

505
00:19:56,140 --> 00:19:54,080
for the truth they were calling

506
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:56,150
themselves brilliant I had never heard

507
00:20:02,190 --> 00:19:58,400
of these theories before never when here

508
00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:02,200
was this this is 2006 a role of 2006

509
00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:06,260
when I got involved and and the theories

510
00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:09,350
had been coming up within hours of the

511
00:20:16,750 --> 00:20:13,310
attacks a lot of pot in the violent sure

512
00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:16,760
a lot of the early conspiracy theorists

513
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:20,270
for 9-11 war Holocaust deniers I'm not a

514
00:20:24,910 --> 00:20:22,970
lot but prominence looking for another

515
00:20:28,030 --> 00:20:24,920
excuse to be able to present their views

516
00:20:30,490 --> 00:20:28,040
on what the jeers have done but they

517
00:20:32,050 --> 00:20:30,500
didn't make it overtly a Jewish thing

518
00:20:34,090 --> 00:20:32,060
most of them that so that they could

519
00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:34,100
work their way into it they would start

520
00:20:37,450 --> 00:20:35,990
a website other people and say wow this

521
00:20:39,580 --> 00:20:37,460
stuff is really suspicious we just look

522
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:39,590
into this and later on find out that

523
00:20:42,530 --> 00:20:42,050
these are hardcore all the costs deniers

524
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:42,540
and

525
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:48,720
quite a while but this is sort of

526
00:20:53,030 --> 00:20:51,210
underground websites were growing for a

527
00:20:55,340 --> 00:20:53,040
long time not that many people knew

528
00:20:58,460 --> 00:20:55,350
about them a few conspiracy nuts were

529
00:21:01,550 --> 00:20:58,470
really passionate about them but didn't

530
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:01,560
hit the mainstream until the video

531
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:03,810
hosting sites at YouTube and Google

532
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:07,260
Video really became popular in 2008 2005

533
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:10,260
it's college for 911 truth did that

534
00:21:16,190 --> 00:21:13,530
happen before or after the YouTube stuff

535
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:16,200
all hit that happened after pretty much

536
00:21:21,350 --> 00:21:19,530
simultaneously but this the movie blues

537
00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:21,360
change was the thing that really made

538
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:24,390
some heads off yeah there were there was

539
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:27,930
a group called physicist for 911 truth

540
00:21:33,980 --> 00:21:31,410
or something like that and that was 2003

541
00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:33,990
pretty early but nobody really paid much

542
00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:35,790
attention to that but it wasn't until

543
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,320
the video started hitting and getting

544
00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:39,600
really widespread view or viewership

545
00:21:45,530 --> 00:21:43,500
that these scholars I'm not used here I

546
00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:45,540
can't help but but but you see

547
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:49,590
everybody's that they said ah here's

548
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:52,740
something for us to to make our name

549
00:21:57,260 --> 00:21:54,809
that we have not been able to do in our

550
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:57,270
20-year scholarly career lots of them

551
00:22:00,830 --> 00:21:59,520
have taught the scientific method some

552
00:22:03,770 --> 00:22:00,840
of them are familiar with engineering

553
00:22:05,630 --> 00:22:03,780
and lots of technical technical terms

554
00:22:08,210 --> 00:22:05,640
and studies and and how to how to

555
00:22:10,370 --> 00:22:08,220
present your findings and and it throw

556
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:10,380
it all out the window for political

557
00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:12,510
reasons I know and I've said it many

558
00:22:20,570 --> 00:22:15,630
times that this stuff you just as soon

559
00:22:24,770 --> 00:22:20,580
not do this why you oh I feel like it

560
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:24,780
yeah I feel like I'm almost uniquely not

561
00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:26,490
qualified in terms of expertise but in

562
00:22:34,190 --> 00:22:28,740
terms of a single guy got time on my

563
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,200
hands I'm a generalist yeah and and know

564
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:36,480
how to do some of the research have a

565
00:22:40,790 --> 00:22:38,190
wide variety of interests and always

566
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:40,800
have know a lot about New York a lot of

567
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:44,970
this deficit that New York and so I saw

568
00:22:51,950 --> 00:22:48,110
an opportunity where I might be able to

569
00:22:54,770 --> 00:22:51,960
make these facts accessible to a lot of

570
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:54,780
people very quickly and that took a lot

571
00:22:58,970 --> 00:22:57,360
of reading most of the conspiracy

572
00:23:01,090 --> 00:22:58,980
theorists almost none of them have read

573
00:23:04,220 --> 00:23:01,100
the things that they are purporting to

574
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:04,230
critique almost none of the death that's

575
00:23:07,820 --> 00:23:05,970
I've seen so many times in the threads

576
00:23:10,490 --> 00:23:07,830
is a have you read it have you read it

577
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:10,500
and it's never oh yeah even the very top

578
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:12,510
people clearly because it makes

579
00:23:15,980 --> 00:23:13,679
statements such and such is not a

580
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:15,990
minister port and I can I can in my head

581
00:23:20,299 --> 00:23:17,970
tell them where the where to find it in

582
00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:20,309
these reports so you know it's a matter

583
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:22,440
of reading 15 thousand pages here

584
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:24,240
another fifteen thousand pages there and

585
00:23:27,950 --> 00:23:26,250
taking it out because it's no good if

586
00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:27,960
you're just reading it and you can't and

587
00:23:34,370 --> 00:23:29,640
you can't process it and use and make

588
00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:34,380
some use of it so in all my spare time

589
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:36,150
for about a year and a half has been

590
00:23:40,730 --> 00:23:38,250
doing that which which does put a crimp

591
00:23:44,299 --> 00:23:40,740
on the social life yeah I don't I don't

592
00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:44,309
let my stuff spill over into my personal

593
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:45,809
life at all my friend most of my friends

594
00:23:51,820 --> 00:23:47,610
have no idea what I've been doing with

595
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:51,830
all this time lot of big idea yeah and

596
00:23:55,820 --> 00:23:54,210
so I'm glad I didn't intend to do this

597
00:23:58,820 --> 00:23:55,830
forever and and I'm not doing this

598
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,830
forever I figured get as much second

599
00:24:02,540 --> 00:24:00,480
done as quickly as possible and I was in

600
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:02,550
a pretty good position I had

601
00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:05,370
from an Israeli writer living in Spain

602
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:08,550
who some friend it is tried to make

603
00:24:13,220 --> 00:24:10,410
these arguments and he found my website

604
00:24:15,950 --> 00:24:13,230
and he wrote this long long thank you

605
00:24:19,550 --> 00:24:15,960
email to me which was almost more than I

606
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:19,560
could read but so grateful to see that

607
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:21,930
especially the people who got caught up

608
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:23,910
in this stuff because a lot of smart

609
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:27,410
people suspended their disbelief because

610
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:30,000
what they would say is you know if even

611
00:24:33,770 --> 00:24:31,530
some of this stuff is true this is

612
00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:33,780
damning it's damn well it's a big if

613
00:24:38,180 --> 00:24:36,300
it's a huge yeah and you've got to

614
00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:38,190
establish if any of that is true and

615
00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:40,350
I've looked into several hundred

616
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:43,350
conspiracy theorists claims about 9 11 0

617
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:47,220
have been true 0 I saw on the scholars

618
00:24:51,230 --> 00:24:49,110
winner 11 truth website here are the

619
00:24:53,390 --> 00:24:51,240
list of if any of these aren't true and

620
00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:53,400
I was in the 18 different things at the

621
00:24:58,700 --> 00:24:56,910
time and I remember having read some of

622
00:25:02,510 --> 00:24:58,710
the day are feds I remember going to do

623
00:25:04,580 --> 00:25:02,520
in the first one well no second one well

624
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:04,590
no that's ridiculous third no and I'm

625
00:25:09,260 --> 00:25:06,570
going down there then I thought why is

626
00:25:11,150 --> 00:25:09,270
this my sis website still up these

627
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:11,160
questions are all they were all very

628
00:25:14,780 --> 00:25:12,960
answerable questions and they had

629
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:14,790
answers that's why I'm diffident and

630
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:17,010
then their what their mantra has been is

631
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:18,570
we're just asking questions and we're

632
00:25:23,540 --> 00:25:20,580
demanding answers well these have all

633
00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:23,550
been answered for years now and these

634
00:25:27,410 --> 00:25:25,020
answer is for me when I started getting

635
00:25:29,660 --> 00:25:27,420
into this a very first day I looked into

636
00:25:32,630 --> 00:25:29,670
this stuff people on the loose change

637
00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:32,640
forum or asking me the same questions i

638
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:34,230
had never heard these questions before

639
00:25:38,570 --> 00:25:36,090
so i spent five minutes and hook it up

640
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:38,580
and you can get solid answers often

641
00:25:41,780 --> 00:25:40,290
sometimes it takes a lot more time you

642
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:41,790
have to look at the original documents

643
00:25:46,220 --> 00:25:44,610
whatever but for the most part note for

644
00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:46,230
the most part these of five minute 10

645
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:49,110
minute half an hour assignments that

646
00:25:53,930 --> 00:25:51,330
anyone who's out of junior high school

647
00:25:55,850 --> 00:25:53,940
could do so so basically you got a day's

648
00:26:00,370 --> 00:25:55,860
worth of work here and it's taken over a

649
00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:03,590
yeah it's involved and that's what the

650
00:26:07,789 --> 00:26:05,400
conspiracy theorists are about this is

651
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:07,799
it's not about answering questions it's

652
00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:09,570
about keeping the conspiracy theory

653
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:12,120
going there in a little club it's very

654
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:14,700
comfortable for them they get to act

655
00:26:19,730 --> 00:26:17,450
like they're doing something against

656
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:19,740
against the man against the government

657
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:21,330
against some shadowy power that they

658
00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:24,210
feel powerless against which is

659
00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:26,220
understandable to an extent when the

660
00:26:31,310 --> 00:26:28,710
u.s. invaded Iraq I have a feeling if

661
00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:31,320
that had not happened we would be seeing

662
00:26:36,919 --> 00:26:34,860
half of this a third of this or less but

663
00:26:38,810 --> 00:26:36,929
the political animosity coming from me

664
00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:38,820
too I was right outside at the street

665
00:26:42,650 --> 00:26:39,990
year when the Republican National

666
00:26:44,810 --> 00:26:42,660
Convention is happening in 2004

667
00:26:46,850 --> 00:26:44,820
protesting against that have been

668
00:26:49,789 --> 00:26:46,860
marching in the streets before the u.s.

669
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:49,799
invaded Iraq in protest of what we knew

670
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:53,610
was coming so if that stuff hadn't

671
00:26:57,380 --> 00:26:54,960
happened am almost certain that I

672
00:26:59,480 --> 00:26:57,390
wouldn't be sitting here now because

673
00:27:03,080 --> 00:26:59,490
this would have died out a long long

674
00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:03,090
time ago but they peaked in 2006 there

675
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:06,030
was a five years yeah and five year

676
00:27:08,990 --> 00:27:07,650
anniversary that's when all these videos

677
00:27:11,450 --> 00:27:09,000
were hitting suddenly everyone's making

678
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:11,460
a 911 conspiracy video they were very

679
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:13,679
very popular very compelling to a lot of

680
00:27:20,090 --> 00:27:17,490
people and if you look at the website

681
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:20,100
traffic for their big websites it's a

682
00:27:26,450 --> 00:27:23,970
huge peak in September 2006 it trails

683
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:26,460
off after that September 2007 it's tiny

684
00:27:35,090 --> 00:27:30,090
bump and it's almost off the scale right

685
00:27:37,490 --> 00:27:35,100
now thinking to any reasons this year I

686
00:27:40,490 --> 00:27:37,500
me the last movement that lightest bumps

687
00:27:41,930 --> 00:27:40,500
are are happening because there's a big

688
00:27:43,970 --> 00:27:41,940
report that came out about world trade

689
00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:43,980
center building 7 the final engineering

690
00:27:48,350 --> 00:27:46,140
report on the collapse of building 7

691
00:27:50,570 --> 00:27:48,360
guess what it wasn't explosives after

692
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:50,580
all we're all shocked to do that while

693
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,110
he was polled wasn't it

694
00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:55,840
the and I still haven't read it I got I

695
00:28:00,180 --> 00:27:58,450
had a number of interview requests on

696
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:00,190
the day the report was being released

697
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:02,410
saying we want you on our show but

698
00:28:05,789 --> 00:28:03,370
you're talking about the reports a

699
00:28:07,770 --> 00:28:05,799
thousand page report and I said

700
00:28:09,890 --> 00:28:07,780
respectfully declined i would like to

701
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:09,900
read it yeah before commenting on it

702
00:28:14,820 --> 00:28:12,910
this is not entertainment for me and

703
00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:14,830
then for a lot of people it is for a lot

704
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:16,780
of the debunkers I think it's they like

705
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:18,010
to have an argument there like a good

706
00:28:21,870 --> 00:28:19,330
argument and they like to get in the mix

707
00:28:23,549 --> 00:28:21,880
in it and to me I wish to get their

708
00:28:25,710 --> 00:28:23,559
facts out there if someone's not going

709
00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:25,720
to accept them or can't do the research

710
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:29,049
themselves and move along and but some

711
00:28:33,060 --> 00:28:31,570
people like the argument and like to

712
00:28:36,390 --> 00:28:33,070
beat up on some of the on some of the

713
00:28:37,980 --> 00:28:36,400
more crazy conspiracy theorists he can

714
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:37,990
need your reactions in both ways too

715
00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:41,200
yeah a big problem I have with it right

716
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:43,030
now is it a lot of people who've stuck

717
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:45,330
in there and are the most adamant are

718
00:28:50,820 --> 00:28:48,970
clearly not well mentally if you're

719
00:28:52,830 --> 00:28:50,830
seriously going to argue that no planes

720
00:28:54,750 --> 00:28:52,840
hit the World Trade Center if you're

721
00:28:56,370 --> 00:28:54,760
seriously going to argue that the Twin

722
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:56,380
Towers were destroyed by space beams

723
00:29:00,120 --> 00:28:58,450
like a guy like Tim Fetzer who taught

724
00:29:04,049 --> 00:29:00,130
critical thinking about to college

725
00:29:06,390 --> 00:29:04,059
students you know that's beyond the pale

726
00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:06,400
and I'm not going to touch that need

727
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:09,070
help there's no way for me to two other

728
00:29:13,950 --> 00:29:11,200
way I encourage them to get help there's

729
00:29:14,909 --> 00:29:13,960
no way for me to make them do it so then

730
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:14,919
they're going to keep it there going to

731
00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:16,510
keep going on this isn't good people say

732
00:29:21,419 --> 00:29:19,150
when is just going to end so it is I

733
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:21,429
have a humor section of my website

734
00:29:26,490 --> 00:29:24,130
because some of the stuff I need to

735
00:29:28,289 --> 00:29:26,500
laugh about some of this stuff another

736
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:28,299
debunkers there because we got that very

737
00:29:33,539 --> 00:29:31,690
heavily into this madness because not

738
00:29:36,659 --> 00:29:33,549
because there's any intrinsic value to

739
00:29:39,150 --> 00:29:36,669
it whatsoever there's almost no value

740
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:39,160
into looking into most of the questions

741
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:41,410
that they have because they're so easily

742
00:29:47,460 --> 00:29:45,010
answerable only because so many people

743
00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:47,470
believe it that's the only reason that I

744
00:29:51,930 --> 00:29:49,990
got involved and we took it a bit for

745
00:29:53,490 --> 00:29:51,940
granted early on we thought well they're

746
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:53,500
making crazy videos anyone you can see

747
00:29:57,870 --> 00:29:56,080
that the stuff is crazy or if they find

748
00:30:00,780 --> 00:29:57,880
a compelling can find these answers

749
00:30:03,540 --> 00:30:00,790
very quickly easily the way we do know

750
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:03,550
these videos took off i rly as they say

751
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:07,930
and and were spectacularly successful at

752
00:30:12,090 --> 00:30:10,330
spreading spreading very very bad

753
00:30:15,180 --> 00:30:12,100
information I had students of mine who

754
00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:15,190
they'd seen them it came to dad asked me

755
00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:16,870
about them what about this and what

756
00:30:21,710 --> 00:30:19,030
about deserve this and again the

757
00:30:24,570 --> 00:30:21,720
conspiracy theories are what

758
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:24,580
self-contained that any evidence against

759
00:30:28,770 --> 00:30:27,310
them is evidence for them it's a

760
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:28,780
conspiracy of silence that people are

761
00:30:34,860 --> 00:30:32,320
trying to put lid on the evidence and

762
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:34,870
the very fact that people are debunking

763
00:30:41,460 --> 00:30:39,010
it is proof that it's true is the lens

764
00:30:44,670 --> 00:30:41,470
Elizabeth said another concern of mine

765
00:30:46,890 --> 00:30:44,680
that if at this point we're giving them

766
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:46,900
attention that's all they're seeking

767
00:30:52,020 --> 00:30:49,840
because the facts of very plain and

768
00:30:53,730 --> 00:30:52,030
don't want to keep doing that either but

769
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:53,740
yes argument to authority that's their

770
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:55,810
main argument these days why should

771
00:30:59,130 --> 00:30:57,130
anyone believe me and I said they should

772
00:31:00,990 --> 00:30:59,140
no one can believe me yeah people should

773
00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:01,000
to look at the information that I put up

774
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:02,860
on the website most of it is not mine

775
00:31:08,550 --> 00:31:05,650
with some analysis it's mine quite a bit

776
00:31:11,370 --> 00:31:08,560
actually that's mine that has never been

777
00:31:13,470 --> 00:31:11,380
refuted by anyone yeah but other than

778
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:13,480
that don't believe me don't believe

779
00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:15,490
anybody get the information I did it

780
00:31:20,730 --> 00:31:19,270
anyone can do it yeah and but that's

781
00:31:22,890 --> 00:31:20,740
their biggest argument this at this

782
00:31:24,750 --> 00:31:22,900
point when I debated Richard gage a

783
00:31:26,820 --> 00:31:24,760
couple of months ago almost the entire

784
00:31:29,460 --> 00:31:26,830
reaction from the truth or community was

785
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:29,470
aha a tour guide against a registered

786
00:31:32,940 --> 00:31:31,450
and licensed architect them in a member

787
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:32,950
of the american institute of architects

788
00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:37,360
game over yeah not unfortunately no and

789
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:39,340
I and I didn't take a lot of pride in

790
00:31:47,330 --> 00:31:44,080
that where I wanted to be able to argue

791
00:31:50,670 --> 00:31:47,340
any of their points any of their claims

792
00:31:53,460 --> 00:31:50,680
and be the tour guide who has no

793
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:53,470
expertise who challenges every one of

794
00:31:56,430 --> 00:31:55,090
their experts and I have at every one of

795
00:31:58,530 --> 00:31:56,440
their experts not you then say

796
00:32:00,240 --> 00:31:58,540
information and say bring it on let's

797
00:32:02,550 --> 00:32:00,250
see what if you can if you

798
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:02,560
you can take on a tour guide you who

799
00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:05,170
spent a career doing this kind of

800
00:32:10,530 --> 00:32:09,340
research and I have it and most of them

801
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:10,540
have decline in that challenge okay

802
00:32:21,270 --> 00:32:19,500
and so so I feel a little bit bad

803
00:32:23,790 --> 00:32:21,280
because there are real experts on our

804
00:32:26,910 --> 00:32:23,800
side who don't get the attention that

805
00:32:28,890 --> 00:32:26,920
they deserve I'm so indebted to people

806
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:28,900
like on the j reps at Mike Ryan mackey

807
00:32:35,820 --> 00:32:33,370
is a NASA scientist who is just cold

808
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:35,830
hard facts and he hammers away he wrote

809
00:32:41,220 --> 00:32:39,010
a 300-page a dissection of david ray

810
00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:41,230
Griffin's material which Griffin has

811
00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:43,390
never responded to it I said no

812
00:32:47,250 --> 00:32:44,710
photographs i use lots of pictures

813
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:47,260
because i need to use pictures I can't

814
00:32:50,700 --> 00:32:49,210
do it all with work that he can he knows

815
00:32:52,890 --> 00:32:50,710
the science called he knows me they're

816
00:32:55,350 --> 00:32:52,900
getting it wrong he's not uncritical of

817
00:33:00,060 --> 00:32:55,360
the official report I things like that

818
00:33:02,130 --> 00:33:00,070
sure and but does it all very quietly

819
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:02,140
and it doesn't seek publicity or

820
00:33:06,690 --> 00:33:04,690
anything so I've learned more about

821
00:33:09,650 --> 00:33:06,700
science from him than that then i have

822
00:33:11,850 --> 00:33:09,660
from any teacher that i ever happened

823
00:33:15,090 --> 00:33:11,860
spectacular that when the biggest expert

824
00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:15,100
we have on north american air defense is

825
00:33:21,420 --> 00:33:19,750
a guy in New Zealand and who just took

826
00:33:23,790 --> 00:33:21,430
up an interest only about half of the

827
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:23,800
debunkers that that i know of we

828
00:33:29,670 --> 00:33:26,610
actually took a poll are from the US

829
00:33:33,540 --> 00:33:29,680
people from canada in the UK and ireland

830
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:33,550
Finland Sweden Italy Australia New

831
00:33:39,450 --> 00:33:37,210
Zealand so being interest around the

832
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:39,460
world which surprised me but what I did

833
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,720
you through but they don't have a

834
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:42,640
warning yeah yeah and that's the reason

835
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:44,530
is that these people see someone in

836
00:33:50,910 --> 00:33:48,610
Melbourne seize seize a poster up saying

837
00:33:53,310 --> 00:33:50,920
9-11 was an inside job and we're having

838
00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:53,320
a meeting about it and gets a little

839
00:33:57,150 --> 00:33:54,880
ticked off about this is what is just

840
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:57,160
about and does their own research so the

841
00:34:02,880 --> 00:33:58,480
Internet allows all of us to come

842
00:34:04,260 --> 00:34:02,890
together spectacularly initially the the

843
00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:04,270
truth is get a big head start because

844
00:34:07,650 --> 00:34:05,950
when you're when you're forming a

845
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:07,660
conspiracy theory you don't have to get

846
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:09,050
anything right right so

847
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:10,850
you can start on within hours of the

848
00:34:15,150 --> 00:34:13,490
event as they did start putting this

849
00:34:18,190 --> 00:34:15,160
information up online speculation

850
00:34:20,530 --> 00:34:18,200
accusations and whatever and people like

851
00:34:22,870 --> 00:34:20,540
us who have to rely on evidence in fact

852
00:34:25,990 --> 00:34:22,880
it takes often a long time for these

853
00:34:28,030 --> 00:34:26,000
things to come to light up years as it

854
00:34:32,020 --> 00:34:28,040
does with the report on building seven

855
00:34:35,470 --> 00:34:32,030
just came out last week and so they have

856
00:34:36,910 --> 00:34:35,480
a big head start and it's this is not

857
00:34:38,530 --> 00:34:36,920
going to be the first time in the

858
00:34:40,180 --> 00:34:38,540
Internet age that this happens the last

859
00:34:41,650 --> 00:34:40,190
time obviously that this happens it's

860
00:34:44,350 --> 00:34:41,660
going to keep happening and keep having

861
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:44,360
now we know that boo we took this for

862
00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:47,090
granted we thought this stuff can't

863
00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:48,950
possibly spread like that it might be

864
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:51,230
concern is that it spread not just in

865
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:53,570
the US but it spread in Muslim countries

866
00:35:00,280 --> 00:34:57,530
you can see videos online of prominent

867
00:35:02,980 --> 00:35:00,290
Muslim speakers being to big crowds and

868
00:35:05,890 --> 00:35:02,990
citing chapter and verse out of loose

869
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:05,900
change out of Stephen Jones who was

870
00:35:12,070 --> 00:35:08,450
another completely discredited former

871
00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:12,080
scientist and and recommending the

872
00:35:15,850 --> 00:35:14,270
videos giving their argument to

873
00:35:17,620 --> 00:35:15,860
Authority since you know the scientists

874
00:35:19,180 --> 00:35:17,630
in America believe this stuff is so it

875
00:35:20,890 --> 00:35:19,190
must be true in Pakistan only three

876
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:20,900
percent of people in Pakistan believe

877
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:22,970
that al-qaeda was responsible for 911

878
00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:26,210
okay that's serious it's not so serious

879
00:35:29,650 --> 00:35:27,710
things when some kids in their in their

880
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:29,660
basement are watching this and most of

881
00:35:32,260 --> 00:35:31,250
them are going to get over it most of

882
00:35:35,140 --> 00:35:32,270
them are going to realize that this is

883
00:35:38,590 --> 00:35:35,150
silly eventually but places where people

884
00:35:41,050 --> 00:35:38,600
are really predisposed to to not believe

885
00:35:42,930 --> 00:35:41,060
this stuff and and maybe live in a

886
00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:42,940
culture where or that's encouraged

887
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:45,620
that's serious so you get Americans who

888
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:47,030
are appealing to that kind of crowd

889
00:35:51,070 --> 00:35:48,410
there was this one guy in particular

890
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:51,080
william rodriguez who was a World Trade

891
00:35:55,630 --> 00:35:53,330
Center survivor and a hero on that day

892
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:55,640
he risked his life to save other people

893
00:36:01,150 --> 00:35:58,880
on that day but didn't get the attention

894
00:36:02,890 --> 00:36:01,160
that he felt he deserved he was a former

895
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:02,900
magician who didn't didn't quite make it

896
00:36:06,670 --> 00:36:04,310
on the New York stage when we moved from

897
00:36:09,550 --> 00:36:06,680
New York and he's been doing essentially

898
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:09,560
stage shows about 911 since they've been

899
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:10,880
accusing the government of being

900
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:13,130
involved this these accusations didn't

901
00:36:17,230 --> 00:36:15,530
start until about two thousand and five

902
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:17,240
than before that it wasn't saying

903
00:36:21,850 --> 00:36:20,570
anything like that suddenly he's saying

904
00:36:23,620 --> 00:36:21,860
there are bombs in the basement and

905
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:23,630
things like that where he had his

906
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:25,730
opportunity to tell this story Jami the

907
00:36:29,770 --> 00:36:27,200
people who are investing it was there

908
00:36:31,390 --> 00:36:29,780
yeah and he did tell the story and it

909
00:36:33,490 --> 00:36:31,400
was a completely different story early

910
00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:33,500
on so that's a sad case where someone's

911
00:36:37,870 --> 00:36:35,630
looking for attention but traveling the

912
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:37,880
world and primarily the Muslim countries

913
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:40,370
where he gets a very big reception he

914
00:36:47,470 --> 00:36:45,050
converted to Islam in 2006 and a sad

915
00:36:49,210 --> 00:36:47,480
very sad case of someone who's clearly

916
00:36:50,740 --> 00:36:49,220
traumatized he lost dozens of friends

917
00:36:55,650 --> 00:36:50,750
that he worked in the World Trade Center

918
00:37:00,610 --> 00:36:55,660
from 19 years clearly traumatized and

919
00:37:02,980 --> 00:37:00,620
and acted out and still is and still try

920
00:37:05,770 --> 00:37:02,990
a named his last European tour the gravy

921
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:05,780
tour that's my that's my screen name at

922
00:37:09,790 --> 00:37:07,520
the j website and you put that on his

923
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:09,800
website saying this is the gravy tour

924
00:37:13,210 --> 00:37:11,690
because i wrote this this analysis of

925
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:13,220
his claim she's knowing that every

926
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:16,730
single one of them is false and even

927
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:18,410
things that he was involved in showing

928
00:37:21,730 --> 00:37:20,690
him you wouldn't necessarily have known

929
00:37:23,860 --> 00:37:21,740
this in tears of what was actually

930
00:37:25,090 --> 00:37:23,870
happening yeah you know these people

931
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:25,100
were in the thick of things like a lot

932
00:37:28,660 --> 00:37:26,810
of firemen war and had no idea what was

933
00:37:30,730 --> 00:37:28,670
happening around them so you have to put

934
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:30,740
these accounts together and then one of

935
00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:33,470
the things that if I think we think a

936
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,240
good one Chris he added the towers

937
00:37:39,940 --> 00:37:37,520
falling in reverse order north to south

938
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:39,950
that was actually a fireman who got

939
00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:42,050
whose account got really abused by the

940
00:37:46,420 --> 00:37:44,030
guys who made loose change and some

941
00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:46,430
other conspiracy theorists a very

942
00:37:51,010 --> 00:37:49,640
confused guy who says he's suffering

943
00:37:53,020 --> 00:37:51,020
from severe traumatic stress disorder

944
00:37:56,530 --> 00:37:53,030
that his life has been has been helped

945
00:37:59,740 --> 00:37:56,540
yes since nine eleven lost his job also

946
00:38:01,690 --> 00:37:59,750
had a situation where he's a danger of

947
00:38:04,030 --> 00:38:01,700
losing his pension for a positive drug

948
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:04,040
test so this is maybe some political

949
00:38:07,660 --> 00:38:05,810
stuff going on and I don't know but

950
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:07,670
severely confused guy who actually

951
00:38:12,650 --> 00:38:09,650
thought that when he was in the North

952
00:38:14,569 --> 00:38:12,660
Tower that when he came

953
00:38:16,940 --> 00:38:14,579
the North Tower the lobby was was

954
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:16,950
devastated what wasn't the way it was

955
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:19,650
when he went up in the North Tower all

956
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:21,089
the windows have blown out was debris

957
00:38:26,690 --> 00:38:24,079
everywhere their bodies there yeah a

958
00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:26,700
bomb or something had gone off but what

959
00:38:30,260 --> 00:38:28,020
had happened when he was in the north

960
00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:30,270
tower in the windowless stairwell the

961
00:38:33,980 --> 00:38:32,280
south tower I'd collapsed a lot of

962
00:38:36,620 --> 00:38:33,990
firemen experienced the same thing the

963
00:38:38,660 --> 00:38:36,630
building is shaking but they had no idea

964
00:38:41,150 --> 00:38:38,670
they had no communication so they come

965
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:41,160
downstairs and make it out a lot of them

966
00:38:46,910 --> 00:38:42,930
didn't make it he's one of the last guys

967
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:46,920
to make it out he thought he had no idea

968
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:48,930
he thought he saw both towers collapse

969
00:38:53,690 --> 00:38:51,089
afterwards now he's telling that story

970
00:38:57,319 --> 00:38:53,700
to these conspiracy theorists on camera

971
00:38:59,630 --> 00:38:57,329
they know that didn't happen they know

972
00:39:02,420 --> 00:38:59,640
what the sequence of events was and none

973
00:39:03,740 --> 00:39:02,430
of them corrected him not only then but

974
00:39:05,150 --> 00:39:03,750
afterwards they could have said all

975
00:39:08,270 --> 00:39:05,160
right let's let him tell his story and

976
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:08,280
then afterwards we'll editorialize or or

977
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:11,760
not they put it up as if this guy saw he

978
00:39:15,859 --> 00:39:13,710
said he thinks bombs were there so that

979
00:39:18,019 --> 00:39:15,869
must have been bombs there and never

980
00:39:20,269 --> 00:39:18,029
told him and so I wrote up a report

981
00:39:22,190 --> 00:39:20,279
about that and his experience and who he

982
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:22,200
was with showing exactly what was

983
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:25,049
happening to him which you can do from

984
00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:28,079
from the reported accounts but most of

985
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:29,369
these firemen aren't going to go back

986
00:39:34,789 --> 00:39:31,190
and read try to read that that stuff oh

987
00:39:36,170 --> 00:39:34,799
it's before oh absolutely and so lots of

988
00:39:38,599 --> 00:39:36,180
people I have a whole section of that

989
00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:38,609
report documenting the confusion a lot

990
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:40,140
of temporal confusion some people

991
00:39:44,059 --> 00:39:41,970
thought these events were happened over

992
00:39:46,609 --> 00:39:44,069
hours and hours some people who were

993
00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:46,619
there for many hours after the event

994
00:39:49,370 --> 00:39:47,910
didn't know that the towers had

995
00:39:51,740 --> 00:39:49,380
collapsed and they're right there on the

996
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:51,750
scene okay that's how much smoke and

997
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:54,410
dust and all that what was happening

998
00:39:59,150 --> 00:39:57,210
enormous confused huh the truthers take

999
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,160
advantage of that confusion and it's so

1000
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:01,440
reprehensible of them to these people

1001
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:02,640
lost you know so many of their

1002
00:40:08,089 --> 00:40:04,250
co-workers and friends and loved ones

1003
00:40:09,859 --> 00:40:08,099
and to abuse those accounts is the most

1004
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:09,869
reprehensible thing I can think of and

1005
00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:12,310
they're still doing it Oh

1006
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:14,710
the very first thing I did was write up

1007
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:17,050
a report on the movie of loose change

1008
00:40:22,620 --> 00:40:20,710
which was the big big new movie I heard

1009
00:40:25,410 --> 00:40:22,630
that these guys were coming to New York

1010
00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:25,420
and they were going to be protesting at

1011
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:27,640
the premiere of the movie United 93

1012
00:40:31,530 --> 00:40:29,200
which is about the plane that crashed in

1013
00:40:33,180 --> 00:40:31,540
Pennsylvania heroic passengers tried to

1014
00:40:35,490 --> 00:40:33,190
retake the cockpit weren't able to get

1015
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:35,500
in but but the hygienist said we're

1016
00:40:39,810 --> 00:40:37,090
going to crash the plane ourselves and

1017
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:39,820
did and these guys did that never

1018
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:43,210
happened so they're going to come to an

1019
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:45,610
event or its attended by family members

1020
00:40:50,850 --> 00:40:49,090
of these victims and say this stuff

1021
00:40:54,110 --> 00:40:50,860
never happened your people didn't talk

1022
00:40:57,300 --> 00:40:54,120
to you on the phone from the planes and

1023
00:40:58,770 --> 00:40:57,310
so I said not in my backyard I wanted to

1024
00:41:01,740 --> 00:40:58,780
do something about that so I watched the

1025
00:41:07,290 --> 00:41:01,750
movie took copious notes on it wrote 150

1026
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:07,300
page paper on it and and put a lot of

1027
00:41:11,220 --> 00:41:09,130
those on CBS I needed me handing out

1028
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:11,230
their dvds so while they were doing that

1029
00:41:14,730 --> 00:41:12,730
they had no idea why was I show up a

1030
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,740
thera-band they're right across the

1031
00:41:18,210 --> 00:41:16,960
street from premier limos are pulling up

1032
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:18,220
and all that it's the opening of the

1033
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:20,170
Tribeca Film Festival Robert De Niro's

1034
00:41:26,370 --> 00:41:23,650
film festival and a very well-received

1035
00:41:29,820 --> 00:41:26,380
movie at one I want best drama from the

1036
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:29,830
new york film critics it's a hell of a

1037
00:41:37,050 --> 00:41:33,850
book and and so as they're handing other

1038
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:37,060
dvds I'm handing out these cds with this

1039
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:38,650
paper on them they have no idea they'd

1040
00:41:43,830 --> 00:41:42,130
never had any opposition before okay so

1041
00:41:45,780 --> 00:41:43,840
i was very happy to do that and finally

1042
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:45,790
found out who I was but how many people

1043
00:41:49,770 --> 00:41:48,130
are going to read 150 page at that time

1044
00:41:54,180 --> 00:41:49,780
it was a PDF document hasn't he been

1045
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:54,190
online and very few a guy in Canada said

1046
00:42:01,080 --> 00:41:57,370
I really like that it totally does sex

1047
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:01,090
just moving line by line and he made a

1048
00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:04,690
video of my paper basically and that was

1049
00:42:06,789 --> 00:42:06,430
a big hit that got a lot of noise and

1050
00:42:09,009 --> 00:42:06,799
that was

1051
00:42:10,839 --> 00:42:09,019
this is a young guy he gets it he gets

1052
00:42:14,620 --> 00:42:10,849
the whole video come I didn't get yeah

1053
00:42:19,479 --> 00:42:14,630
damn right and and that's happened a few

1054
00:42:21,249 --> 00:42:19,489
times I made I made a paper about just

1055
00:42:23,709 --> 00:42:21,259
different quotes from these leader truth

1056
00:42:25,390 --> 00:42:23,719
movement leaders and how horrible and

1057
00:42:26,709 --> 00:42:25,400
reprehensible it were when they were

1058
00:42:29,859 --> 00:42:26,719
talking to me Baloo that they thought

1059
00:42:31,269 --> 00:42:29,869
were their own audience but these are

1060
00:42:32,709 --> 00:42:31,279
things that they promoted radio shows

1061
00:42:34,390 --> 00:42:32,719
they did that they promote on their

1062
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:34,400
website and all I did was listening to

1063
00:42:39,009 --> 00:42:36,079
their radio shows and their and their

1064
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:39,019
presentations and take notes and it's

1065
00:42:44,469 --> 00:42:42,650
absolutely shocking accusing victims of

1066
00:42:46,329 --> 00:42:44,479
being in on the crimes and I mean

1067
00:42:49,539 --> 00:42:46,339
horrible heart so these aren't just

1068
00:42:51,929 --> 00:42:49,549
naive innocent people to get things

1069
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:51,939
wrong these are a lot of them are

1070
00:42:56,469 --> 00:42:54,650
vicious about come and they've learned

1071
00:42:58,900 --> 00:42:56,479
finally but so I put that bitter out

1072
00:43:00,579 --> 00:42:58,910
people were shocked by these things I

1073
00:43:02,769 --> 00:43:00,589
thought these are just ignorant people

1074
00:43:05,259 --> 00:43:02,779
know them they're a lot more than that

1075
00:43:08,589 --> 00:43:05,269
well someone make that same guy makes a

1076
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:08,599
video out of that paper right really it

1077
00:43:12,249 --> 00:43:10,609
shorter obviously has very few people

1078
00:43:14,829 --> 00:43:12,259
are going to read 100 than 100 page

1079
00:43:17,829 --> 00:43:14,839
paper lots of people watch the video you

1080
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:17,839
got more death threats invited because

1081
00:43:20,949 --> 00:43:19,910
younger people especially who are more

1082
00:43:24,189 --> 00:43:20,959
impressionable are going to be watching

1083
00:43:25,870 --> 00:43:24,199
videos I get a lot of emails from older

1084
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:25,880
folks who will take the time to read

1085
00:43:31,179 --> 00:43:29,359
papers but the unfocus are watching the

1086
00:43:34,089 --> 00:43:31,189
videos and it took me a while i did one

1087
00:43:35,799 --> 00:43:34,099
finally a pretty long video called world

1088
00:43:38,829 --> 00:43:35,809
traits world traits that are not a

1089
00:43:40,809 --> 00:43:38,839
demolition which takes almost all the

1090
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:40,819
major claims about the World Trade

1091
00:43:46,299 --> 00:43:42,650
Center buildings and shows especially

1092
00:43:49,599 --> 00:43:46,309
visually hmm why they're wrong they rely

1093
00:43:51,429 --> 00:43:49,609
a lot on visuals and it's YouTube

1094
00:43:53,439 --> 00:43:51,439
research yeah it's not on youtube it

1095
00:43:55,989 --> 00:43:53,449
didn't happen yeah and some of them

1096
00:44:00,039 --> 00:43:55,999
actually said others will say who needs

1097
00:44:01,689 --> 00:44:00,049
science when when we have you to show us

1098
00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:01,699
what happened and then really believe

1099
00:44:08,349 --> 00:44:05,420
that and that's encouraged by people who

1100
00:44:11,199 --> 00:44:08,359
do know better now a big part of this is

1101
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:11,209
in terms of understanding engineering

1102
00:44:14,260 --> 00:44:12,290
understanding of what

1103
00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:14,270
yet when you see the skyscraper collapse

1104
00:44:18,190 --> 00:44:16,310
which is not a familiar event to anyone

1105
00:44:21,730 --> 00:44:18,200
not ever seen that before so we have

1106
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:21,740
nothing to gauge it against a big part

1107
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:24,530
of that you have to know some science

1108
00:44:29,710 --> 00:44:26,570
something about the way the physical

1109
00:44:32,260 --> 00:44:29,720
world works and a lot of these people

1110
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:32,270
don't and said to them anything is

1111
00:44:36,190 --> 00:44:34,250
possible not only that but equally

1112
00:44:37,390 --> 00:44:36,200
possible look at me some of the experts

1113
00:44:39,730 --> 00:44:37,400
who thought that they should fall like

1114
00:44:42,190 --> 00:44:39,740
trees but there's the problem what

1115
00:44:45,730 --> 00:44:42,200
happened was that these experts who do

1116
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:45,740
know better you know convinced a lot of

1117
00:44:50,350 --> 00:44:48,650
these people to be their followers the

1118
00:44:54,340 --> 00:44:50,360
sky Stephen Jones I used to send a

1119
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:54,350
presentation at an event defined entropy

1120
00:44:59,380 --> 00:44:57,770
as things topple over meaning building

1121
00:45:02,500 --> 00:44:59,390
seven because it because it was damaged

1122
00:45:04,660 --> 00:45:02,510
on one side should have fallen like a

1123
00:45:07,150 --> 00:45:04,670
tree well actually the thing that caused

1124
00:45:08,770 --> 00:45:07,160
it to fall was was fire in the center of

1125
00:45:11,980 --> 00:45:08,780
the building the destroyed columns and

1126
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:11,990
descent inside the building there was no

1127
00:45:16,930 --> 00:45:13,520
other way for the building to fall but

1128
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:16,940
straight down yeah but that definite is

1129
00:45:20,710 --> 00:45:18,710
event ravine wouldn't be suitable for

1130
00:45:22,420 --> 00:45:20,720
six-year-old much less a college

1131
00:45:24,430 --> 00:45:22,430
audience which was his audience this is

1132
00:45:26,410 --> 00:45:24,440
a physics professor spent 20 years

1133
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:26,420
teaching physics working in big physics

1134
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:29,930
labs up he knows that that is absolutely

1135
00:45:36,700 --> 00:45:34,850
dead wrong but they will say anything to

1136
00:45:39,850 --> 00:45:36,710
get to get an audience and so they

1137
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:39,860
convince these people that that their

1138
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:42,800
physical reality up it can actually be

1139
00:45:48,610 --> 00:45:45,010
reality and so you get these guys

1140
00:45:50,830 --> 00:45:48,620
pathetic guys stacking up coke cans on

1141
00:45:52,420 --> 00:45:50,840
the internet and then dropping another

1142
00:45:54,370 --> 00:45:52,430
one on top and sitting see the whole

1143
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:54,380
thing didn't collapse and so it won't

1144
00:45:57,610 --> 00:45:55,490
trade said I shouldn't have collapsed

1145
00:45:59,290 --> 00:45:57,620
because this is a valid analog to the

1146
00:46:01,630 --> 00:45:59,300
towers it's better than the computer

1147
00:46:03,490 --> 00:46:01,640
models that the world's best engineers

1148
00:46:05,020 --> 00:46:03,500
have developed and they believe it and

1149
00:46:07,180 --> 00:46:05,030
they're confident enough in that to make

1150
00:46:09,310 --> 00:46:07,190
a video often with their faces on it and

1151
00:46:10,299 --> 00:46:09,320
say here's my message to you world I

1152
00:46:12,789 --> 00:46:10,309
know more of an

1153
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:12,799
gineering than the experts do total

1154
00:46:18,249 --> 00:46:14,930
disdain for expertise which is taught to

1155
00:46:19,900 --> 00:46:18,259
them by people who are experts you know

1156
00:46:22,059 --> 00:46:19,910
better improvising awful lot of the

1157
00:46:24,939 --> 00:46:22,069
creationists you see like doing dish out

1158
00:46:26,380 --> 00:46:24,949
there giving his definitions that L dis

1159
00:46:28,620 --> 00:46:26,390
is as no one's definition and I

1160
00:46:32,859 --> 00:46:28,630
recognize that definition from as mobs

1161
00:46:34,299 --> 00:46:32,869
physics dictionary for children and and

1162
00:46:36,309 --> 00:46:34,309
they've been corrected a million times

1163
00:46:37,630 --> 00:46:36,319
just like anybody who's been a debate

1164
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:37,640
with you've been corrected a million

1165
00:46:42,670 --> 00:46:40,249
Tyler it doesn't stop doin a million

1166
00:46:44,949 --> 00:46:42,680
first time yeah it's a it's a great

1167
00:46:47,410 --> 00:46:44,959
great analogy isn't this is a religious

1168
00:46:48,549 --> 00:46:47,420
movement it didn't I don't think start

1169
00:46:50,170 --> 00:46:48,559
out that way I think it started out with

1170
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:50,180
a lot of people who did have questions

1171
00:46:54,429 --> 00:46:52,130
at least believe we're legitimate and

1172
00:46:59,259 --> 00:46:54,439
lots of things were confusing and take

1173
00:47:01,630 --> 00:46:59,269
some study in research but it became

1174
00:47:03,989 --> 00:47:01,640
quickly in a religious movement as I

1175
00:47:06,579 --> 00:47:03,999
said not a single significant claim

1176
00:47:09,489 --> 00:47:06,589
correct they take all the things yeah

1177
00:47:11,049 --> 00:47:09,499
yeah you've got it you've got to be a

1178
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:11,059
special kind of person to stick with

1179
00:47:17,739 --> 00:47:13,729
that and and one thing they have is

1180
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:17,749
consistency why introduce any facts now

1181
00:47:23,890 --> 00:47:19,910
and where we've developed this world

1182
00:47:26,079 --> 00:47:23,900
that's a fantasy any advice for what are

1183
00:47:30,339 --> 00:47:26,089
the right ways in the wrong ways to go

1184
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:30,349
about yeah this is a great a fun

1185
00:47:33,699 --> 00:47:32,089
question dude I got involved in this tub

1186
00:47:35,949 --> 00:47:33,709
with no intention of being involved no

1187
00:47:39,069 --> 00:47:35,959
experience with conspiracy theories be

1188
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:39,079
on some JFK stuff no particular interest

1189
00:47:45,069 --> 00:47:43,249
in it and especially no real knowledge

1190
00:47:47,529 --> 00:47:45,079
of the psychology of a conspiracy

1191
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:47,539
theorist and I didn't have the luxury of

1192
00:47:53,739 --> 00:47:51,650
the time to learn about fortunately I

1193
00:47:55,989 --> 00:47:53,749
was I found out about it at a place like

1194
00:47:58,599 --> 00:47:55,999
the jrf for all sorts of people that you

1195
00:48:01,449 --> 00:47:58,609
are knowledgeable about this stuff and

1196
00:48:03,999 --> 00:48:01,459
and have already written about it and

1197
00:48:05,739 --> 00:48:04,009
and we're in the process of writing more

1198
00:48:08,589 --> 00:48:05,749
about as these conspiracy theories were

1199
00:48:12,219 --> 00:48:08,599
growing because I was clueless about how

1200
00:48:12,890 --> 00:48:12,229
to approach they say that's fool well so

1201
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:12,900
I took

1202
00:48:19,790 --> 00:48:17,760
trying to error for me and it started

1203
00:48:21,140 --> 00:48:19,800
out very very angry anger is what

1204
00:48:22,540 --> 00:48:21,150
sustained me through this whole thing I

1205
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:22,550
never would have finished a single paper

1206
00:48:27,260 --> 00:48:25,770
if it weren't just spitting angra these

1207
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:27,270
people who go to ground zero every

1208
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:29,730
Saturday and claim that you know firemen

1209
00:48:36,860 --> 00:48:31,440
were in on the conspiracy or things like

1210
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:36,870
that this is intolerable and so but what

1211
00:48:41,660 --> 00:48:38,970
I would do I start going there to to

1212
00:48:42,740 --> 00:48:41,670
counter them on weekends and take

1213
00:48:44,660 --> 00:48:42,750
different approaches with different

1214
00:48:46,580 --> 00:48:44,670
people if someone's knew coming into the

1215
00:48:47,900 --> 00:48:46,590
movement obviously is brand-new they're

1216
00:48:50,540 --> 00:48:47,910
they're handing out leaflets I've never

1217
00:48:54,500 --> 00:48:50,550
seen them before you take a completely

1218
00:48:57,650 --> 00:48:54,510
rational other column approach you know

1219
00:48:59,120 --> 00:48:57,660
and ask them what they know about it

1220
00:49:00,530 --> 00:48:59,130
have you read this have you read that

1221
00:49:02,750 --> 00:49:00,540
here's my website here are some things

1222
00:49:04,430 --> 00:49:02,760
to look at and it's not next time you

1223
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:04,440
come out and there's videos of me out

1224
00:49:08,510 --> 00:49:06,510
there doing that at length and I'm glad

1225
00:49:11,060 --> 00:49:08,520
to talk for an hour or more to someone

1226
00:49:14,300 --> 00:49:11,070
about that if they want to two people

1227
00:49:16,250 --> 00:49:14,310
who are there every week Kevin totally

1228
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:16,260
different approach get right up in their

1229
00:49:19,850 --> 00:49:18,450
face and say here's the same damn poster

1230
00:49:21,830 --> 00:49:19,860
you said saying the hijackers are still

1231
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:21,840
alive and last week did you look at the

1232
00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:23,250
material i sent you have you looked at

1233
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:24,900
the 36-page paper i wrote on this

1234
00:49:29,930 --> 00:49:27,450
subject right here that when i'm giving

1235
00:49:32,180 --> 00:49:29,940
you a link for the past 10 weeks and of

1236
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:32,190
course not and the idea of that is

1237
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:34,050
getting really aggressive in their face

1238
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:35,970
not physically yes I know about they

1239
00:49:39,290 --> 00:49:37,710
have tried to block me physically from

1240
00:49:42,770 --> 00:49:39,300
putting signs up and things like that it

1241
00:49:46,910 --> 00:49:42,780
torn up my literature First Amendment

1242
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:46,920
what's that but the idea is to make them

1243
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:49,200
so mad and frustrated that they're going

1244
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:51,090
to go home and they're going to do some

1245
00:49:58,760 --> 00:49:53,970
research proved you wrong that never

1246
00:50:00,380 --> 00:49:58,770
happened never this is a year of do I

1247
00:50:02,450 --> 00:50:00,390
mean that was me going every week I'm

1248
00:50:04,130 --> 00:50:02,460
not crazy I'm not so I'm not crazy you

1249
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:04,140
know I was thinking we're in their face

1250
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:06,570
for people who are out there watching in

1251
00:50:11,390 --> 00:50:10,050
part in part but really it was to to get

1252
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:11,400
them so worked up that they're gonna say

1253
00:50:14,420 --> 00:50:13,050
I'm going to show that Mark Roberts next

1254
00:50:15,860 --> 00:50:14,430
week I'm going to come back at the facts

1255
00:50:19,130 --> 00:50:15,870
that are going to refute what he just

1256
00:50:22,020 --> 00:50:19,140
said right never happened once you come

1257
00:50:23,370 --> 00:50:22,030
back and it's a replay

1258
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:23,380
you realize these people are not

1259
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:25,690
hyperbole yeah the leaders anyway and

1260
00:50:32,910 --> 00:50:28,810
the hardcore group are not capable of

1261
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:32,920
doing that and so I stopped doing that

1262
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:35,050
there's no point and then the newcomers

1263
00:50:38,070 --> 00:50:36,610
more coming so much anymore so there's

1264
00:50:40,290 --> 00:50:38,080
no point in continuing that kind of

1265
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:40,300
episode especially at Ground Zero which

1266
00:50:44,460 --> 00:50:42,370
to a lot of people is something of a

1267
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:44,470
sacred plants in other words a very busy

1268
00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:50,710
busy touristy place also and so just let

1269
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:52,510
them fester in their own in their own

1270
00:50:57,240 --> 00:50:55,210
whatever you want to call it but yeah

1271
00:51:00,420 --> 00:50:57,250
that another sad episode these are

1272
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:00,430
people who can't a really interesting

1273
00:51:04,380 --> 00:51:02,050
thing that you might be interested in I

1274
00:51:06,660 --> 00:51:04,390
would go there with this binder full of

1275
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:06,670
material they would say oh the hijackers

1276
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:07,930
names weren't even on the passenger

1277
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:09,310
manifests I said yeah here they are all

1278
00:51:13,950 --> 00:51:12,400
of them okay there they are this this

1279
00:51:16,110 --> 00:51:13,960
didn't happen well yeah here's a photo

1280
00:51:20,610 --> 00:51:16,120
of it happened right there there you go

1281
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:20,620
and so many times when I would open up

1282
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:22,000
that binder to show them something they

1283
00:51:28,220 --> 00:51:25,690
physically couldn't look at it it was

1284
00:51:30,930 --> 00:51:28,230
like it was like a vampire and across

1285
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:30,940
really and it was shocking to me because

1286
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:33,370
they would be you know talking or

1287
00:51:36,570 --> 00:51:34,870
arguing passionately about the stuff for

1288
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:36,580
10 minutes now I go I actually had that

1289
00:51:43,140 --> 00:51:39,760
right here and literally can't look out

1290
00:51:44,730 --> 00:51:43,150
or usually just walk away you know in

1291
00:51:48,210 --> 00:51:44,740
this tongue this is our video and I'm

1292
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:48,220
not making this up stunning to physical

1293
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:50,890
aversion to facts in heaven and notes

1294
00:51:57,540 --> 00:51:53,770
over the secrets that the political

1295
00:52:00,720 --> 00:51:57,550
campaigns that it the truth is we tend

1296
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:00,730
to follow a particular candidate well

1297
00:52:10,590 --> 00:52:04,290
Ron Paul was a big president kind of

1298
00:52:12,270 --> 00:52:10,600
libertarian and he outright said I do

1299
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:12,280
not support these people although they

1300
00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:14,160
knew they were supporting him

1301
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:16,710
I don't you know you claim to not be

1302
00:52:21,470 --> 00:52:19,200
aware of this anybody here if you're

1303
00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:21,480
aligning yourself with those people then

1304
00:52:25,930 --> 00:52:22,710
you're essentially taking a stand

1305
00:52:28,789 --> 00:52:25,940
against the Fire Department of New York

1306
00:52:31,279 --> 00:52:28,799
no you can't not a politician no

1307
00:52:32,839 --> 00:52:31,289
politician no you can't did what but

1308
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:32,849
still it would like their votes you know

1309
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:35,730
so I don't know how things that got

1310
00:52:38,599 --> 00:52:37,440
discussed in the back rooms it would be

1311
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:38,609
interesting to be a fly on the wall

1312
00:52:42,799 --> 00:52:40,559
there well it's an intro into other

1313
00:52:46,099 --> 00:52:42,809
political issues also is a way it's a

1314
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:46,109
way of saying whether it's a peak oil

1315
00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:49,170
issue whether it's you know we're in or

1316
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:50,760
in the Mideast invading the Mideast

1317
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:52,319
because of oil and things like that and

1318
00:52:58,029 --> 00:52:54,000
certainly legitimate arguments you can

1319
00:53:00,740 --> 00:52:58,039
make their they think that they're

1320
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:00,750
bringing people into those arguments but

1321
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:02,250
know what they're doing is absorbing a

1322
00:53:08,779 --> 00:53:06,510
lot of active young people who could be

1323
00:53:11,059 --> 00:53:08,789
activists in for causes that could

1324
00:53:14,839 --> 00:53:11,069
really make a difference and that have

1325
00:53:16,220 --> 00:53:14,849
facts associate yeah yeah and diverting

1326
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:16,230
their attention and getting them

1327
00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:18,890
absorbed in hundreds of hours of videos

1328
00:53:23,269 --> 00:53:21,660
and people like Noam Chomsky the

1329
00:53:24,799 --> 00:53:23,279
truthers really wanted noam chomsky on

1330
00:53:27,140 --> 00:53:24,809
their side a lot of the truthers are our

1331
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:27,150
leftist and um left-of-center myself and

1332
00:53:32,779 --> 00:53:30,930
my politics he boy that he said get it

1333
00:53:34,849 --> 00:53:32,789
get out of my face begin and he said he

1334
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:34,859
said right out that that you guys are

1335
00:53:38,510 --> 00:53:36,450
doing a terrible thing you're

1336
00:53:40,430 --> 00:53:38,520
distracting from all these real issues

1337
00:53:41,750 --> 00:53:40,440
real political issues you don't want

1338
00:53:43,220 --> 00:53:41,760
towards boosting office well there's

1339
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:43,230
things that we could be doing right now

1340
00:53:48,230 --> 00:53:46,319
and and they weren't they were doing the

1341
00:53:50,299 --> 00:53:48,240
opposite if I were the people in power

1342
00:53:53,079 --> 00:53:50,309
or these truth is claimed to be against

1343
00:53:55,250 --> 00:53:53,089
I would be sending them money it is

1344
00:53:57,769 --> 00:53:55,260
absolutely the best thing for the Middle

1345
00:54:00,440 --> 00:53:57,779
East horrible distractions yeah and no

1346
00:54:05,580 --> 00:54:00,450
focus on real issues well since it

1347
00:54:17,590 --> 00:54:15,700
my name is Mark Roberts thank you the

1348
00:54:21,580 --> 00:54:17,600
Australian skeptics National Convention

1349
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:21,590
for 2008 will be held in Adelaide South

1350
00:54:26,860 --> 00:54:24,290
Australia the convention will be held on

1351
00:54:29,710 --> 00:54:26,870
saturday the 11th and sunday the 12th of

1352
00:54:32,050 --> 00:54:29,720
october you can enjoy presentations by

1353
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:32,060
speakers such as Rob Morrison and Dean

1354
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:34,910
Hutton from the curiosity show Professor

1355
00:54:42,070 --> 00:54:38,480
Ian climber Glenn Smith Loretta Marigny

1356
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:42,080
jelly bean lady Mike McRae Kylie Sturgis

1357
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:45,200
Richard Saunders even to book your seats

1358
00:54:53,050 --> 00:54:48,910
at this great convention visit w WC

1359
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:53,060
optics com au the Australian skeptics

1360
00:55:06,070 --> 00:54:56,090
National Convention see you in October

1361
00:55:14,099 --> 00:55:06,080
in Adelaide join us now for drinking

1362
00:55:18,329 --> 00:55:16,650
well welcome Rachel done that dr. Rachel

1363
00:55:21,989 --> 00:55:18,339
unlocks hello Richard welcome my koala

1364
00:55:24,839 --> 00:55:21,999
hand cheers and we're at the local club

1365
00:55:26,249 --> 00:55:24,849
here knew where I live and it's a big

1366
00:55:28,099 --> 00:55:26,259
crowd here tonight just to watch us

1367
00:55:30,150 --> 00:55:28,109
actually we're watching football I

1368
00:55:31,529 --> 00:55:30,160
thought they were you for international

1369
00:55:33,150 --> 00:55:31,539
speak like a pirate day because

1370
00:55:37,739 --> 00:55:33,160
international speak like a pirate day oh

1371
00:55:39,779 --> 00:55:37,749
no that's gone thank you so this is

1372
00:55:42,359 --> 00:55:39,789
welcome to the very first think tank

1373
00:55:46,519 --> 00:55:42,369
section of the new skeptic zone podcast

1374
00:55:48,749 --> 00:55:46,529
and this is where we have a little drink

1375
00:55:51,150 --> 00:55:48,759
see they're really hot drinks they're

1376
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,160
really Audrey's and we discuss issues of

1377
00:55:55,410 --> 00:55:54,160
The Skeptical matter of the day yes I've

1378
00:55:56,970 --> 00:55:55,420
been digging away I found some

1379
00:55:59,220 --> 00:55:56,980
interesting an interesting news article

1380
00:56:01,559 --> 00:55:59,230
today about the Premier of New South

1381
00:56:05,099 --> 00:56:01,569
Wales now here's the equivalent of our

1382
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:05,109
local government for those those of you

1383
00:56:08,849 --> 00:56:07,210
who don't know what premiers for those

1384
00:56:12,569 --> 00:56:08,859
in the state's he's like a government

1385
00:56:16,349 --> 00:56:12,579
sorta yeah I guess so anyway he came out

1386
00:56:19,319 --> 00:56:16,359
today with endorsing some cryptozoology

1387
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:19,329
that's been sort of floating around New

1388
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:21,249
South Wales for quite some time people

1389
00:56:25,470 --> 00:56:23,529
have spotted what they think is a black

1390
00:56:27,749 --> 00:56:25,480
panther living on the other side of the

1391
00:56:30,180 --> 00:56:27,759
mountain this is an old story isn't it

1392
00:56:31,620 --> 00:56:30,190
is an old story but he endorsed it today

1393
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:31,630
and said that he thinks we need to do

1394
00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:33,910
further research because perhaps it's

1395
00:56:38,759 --> 00:56:36,910
not just a mess did I hear that he said

1396
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:38,769
people have been contacting him saying

1397
00:56:43,890 --> 00:56:40,480
this is real yes

1398
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:43,900
and he's also had and the endorsement of

1399
00:56:47,910 --> 00:56:46,090
tim the yowie man who i believe you know

1400
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:47,920
a bit about me I know Tim the area man

1401
00:56:53,609 --> 00:56:50,770
he's a nice bloke I'm not sure if you

1402
00:56:55,830 --> 00:56:53,619
really believe 0 y 0 is out there or

1403
00:56:58,200 --> 00:56:55,840
he's just having a go but he's a girl

1404
00:56:59,730 --> 00:56:58,210
well if he doesn't believe it he's now

1405
00:57:02,070 --> 00:56:59,740
asking the government to spend money on

1406
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:02,080
research in Yahweh's in fact he said

1407
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:04,810
that not only does he want the

1408
00:57:09,570 --> 00:57:06,570
government to research the so-called

1409
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:09,580
let's go panther but also the boro Wayne

1410
00:57:14,340 --> 00:57:12,010
bonheur the UFOs of the Central Coast

1411
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:14,350
and yo ease I used to live on the

1412
00:57:18,180 --> 00:57:15,760
Central Coast I don't remember the

1413
00:57:19,830 --> 00:57:18,190
Yowies or the UFOs well he obviously

1414
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:19,840
went welcome properly which I know she's

1415
00:57:23,820 --> 00:57:21,490
apparently there is something called the

1416
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:23,830
UFOs of the Central Coast anyway it's

1417
00:57:29,220 --> 00:57:26,290
quite funny because the the opposition

1418
00:57:31,109 --> 00:57:29,230
party the government opposition party

1419
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,119
here has come out and said that this

1420
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:33,520
this new premier is a fool and it

1421
00:57:37,830 --> 00:57:34,570
shouldn't be spending money on

1422
00:57:39,390 --> 00:57:37,840
researching a apparently mythical

1423
00:57:41,310 --> 00:57:39,400
Panther when we've got a crisis in the

1424
00:57:43,020 --> 00:57:41,320
budget and the public transport system

1425
00:57:45,450 --> 00:57:43,030
doesn't work normally that the

1426
00:57:47,820 --> 00:57:45,460
opposition in any state of or in the

1427
00:57:49,890 --> 00:57:47,830
federal system sort of a knee-jerk

1428
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:49,900
reaction they love to pick on the

1429
00:57:55,710 --> 00:57:52,210
government but in this case I theorem I

1430
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:55,720
rice yes it's possible but I tell you

1431
00:57:58,830 --> 00:57:57,040
what Richard journalists have had a

1432
00:58:01,650 --> 00:57:58,840
field day today with some headlines

1433
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:01,660
surrounding the story yeah one of them

1434
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:04,510
was that the Premier's name is Nathan

1435
00:58:10,109 --> 00:58:07,570
Rees has raced for Bigfoot in it with

1436
00:58:15,300 --> 00:58:10,119
one headline there was another one that

1437
00:58:16,740 --> 00:58:15,310
said premier sinks claws into mystery so

1438
00:58:18,300 --> 00:58:16,750
if nothing else journalists have had

1439
00:58:20,370 --> 00:58:18,310
some fun with it today but it's

1440
00:58:21,900 --> 00:58:20,380
interesting because the reason that in

1441
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:21,910
fact the National Parks and Wildlife

1442
00:58:26,090 --> 00:58:23,280
Service and you

1443
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:26,100
in 2005 did spend a couple of hundred

1444
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:27,410
thousand dollars researching this

1445
00:58:33,340 --> 00:58:30,570
properly and came up with no evidence to

1446
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:33,350
suggest that there was a Roman panther

1447
00:58:37,730 --> 00:58:35,490
however the reason that they did that

1448
00:58:41,300 --> 00:58:37,740
research to begin with was because a 17

1449
00:58:44,900 --> 00:58:41,310
year old boy was attacked by something

1450
00:58:47,780 --> 00:58:44,910
and had presented with lacerated arms

1451
00:58:50,460 --> 00:58:47,790
and blood and through a Freedom of

1452
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:50,470
Information Act

1453
00:58:54,540 --> 00:58:52,930
see you someone found that the

1454
00:58:57,359 --> 00:58:54,550
government was actually keeping a file

1455
00:59:01,410 --> 00:58:57,369
on this happen and so now it's being

1456
00:59:04,140 --> 00:59:01,420
referred to as the governor's X file and

1457
00:59:05,310 --> 00:59:04,150
so the villain is serious you're the

1458
00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:05,320
believers are saying well if it doesn't

1459
00:59:10,710 --> 00:59:06,910
exist and why does the government have a

1460
00:59:13,230 --> 00:59:10,720
file on it so they did actually do some

1461
00:59:15,690 --> 00:59:13,240
extensive research and they got seam

1462
00:59:17,970 --> 00:59:15,700
line experts to come in no examine what

1463
00:59:20,490 --> 00:59:17,980
well that actually the feces is called

1464
00:59:22,830 --> 00:59:20,500
sketch yes yeah and so they've had

1465
00:59:24,540 --> 00:59:22,840
laboratories test escapes see if they

1466
00:59:27,540 --> 00:59:24,550
can ascertain whether it's from a

1467
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:27,550
panther or a leopard that gas you could

1468
00:59:31,950 --> 00:59:29,170
just add wasn't because of Rachel's

1469
00:59:34,770 --> 00:59:31,960
invertible insight into this mystery all

1470
00:59:37,609 --> 00:59:34,780
it's because on the large TV screen here

1471
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:37,619
is a local football game in action

1472
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:41,050
language I have no I how are you betting

1473
00:59:49,140 --> 00:59:46,770
for the Panthers oh that's very funny

1474
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:49,150
there is actually a football tank called

1475
00:59:53,630 --> 00:59:51,609
the Penrith Panthers that is true quick

1476
00:59:56,070 --> 00:59:53,640
that was very quick well done well done

1477
00:59:58,680 --> 00:59:56,080
anyway we'll see how this pans out for

1478
01:00:00,780 --> 00:59:58,690
them yes no Michael what do you have

1479
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:00,790
them well I have a very important story

1480
01:00:05,010 --> 01:00:02,890
that I've been following you're going to

1481
01:00:06,570 --> 01:00:05,020
be blown away by this apparently robbie

1482
01:00:08,820 --> 01:00:06,580
williams wants to quit the music

1483
01:00:13,380 --> 01:00:08,830
business and devote himself to looking

1484
01:00:15,570 --> 01:00:13,390
for aliens oh is that right i started

1485
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:15,580
following this story the beginning of

1486
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:18,730
the week now apparently Robbie's became

1487
01:00:24,599 --> 01:00:21,010
obsessed with life on other planets and

1488
01:00:25,620 --> 01:00:24,609
claims to have seen aliens twice well I

1489
01:00:28,170 --> 01:00:25,630
know what you're thinking it's probably

1490
01:00:31,380 --> 01:00:28,180
a publicity stunt I'm thinking it's

1491
01:00:34,109 --> 01:00:31,390
probably a publicity stunt but he is

1492
01:00:37,859 --> 01:00:34,119
pretty mad he is apparently locked into

1493
01:00:40,500 --> 01:00:37,869
an 18 million pound reporting deal but

1494
01:00:44,460 --> 01:00:40,510
spends most of his time stargazing and

1495
01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:44,470
chatting on UFO websites don't well so

1496
01:00:47,820 --> 01:00:45,700
you mean he hasn't been recording any

1497
01:00:51,089 --> 01:00:47,830
music lately yes internet he hasn't

1498
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:51,099
hasn't been reporting any music okay and

1499
01:00:57,390 --> 01:00:53,410
one of the interesting things i found

1500
01:00:59,370 --> 01:00:57,400
today relating to Robbie was that he has

1501
01:01:01,560 --> 01:00:59,380
been dumped by his girlfriend and she

1502
01:01:05,490 --> 01:01:01,570
reportedly got sick of playing second

1503
01:01:07,269 --> 01:01:05,500
fiddle to easier for obsession oh my

1504
01:01:10,209 --> 01:01:07,279
goodness

1505
01:01:12,609 --> 01:01:10,219
so I think we should ruminate a man one

1506
01:01:15,069 --> 01:01:12,619
of the sad things over this week but

1507
01:01:18,459 --> 01:01:15,079
have you heard this story about King I'd

1508
01:01:21,339 --> 01:01:18,469
only pink has became or is investigating

1509
01:01:25,029 --> 01:01:21,349
Scientology remedy heard about this not

1510
01:01:26,769 --> 01:01:25,039
happen pink is what's what's pink

1511
01:01:29,169 --> 01:01:26,779
authority on Scientologist well

1512
01:01:32,380 --> 01:01:29,179
apparently from the stories i've been

1513
01:01:35,709 --> 01:01:32,390
reading she has recently split up with

1514
01:01:39,399 --> 01:01:35,719
the husband i said and she needs some

1515
01:01:41,739 --> 01:01:39,409
solace so she's turned her good friends

1516
01:01:45,069 --> 01:01:41,749
Scientologists i see which there are

1517
01:01:48,759 --> 01:01:45,079
many oh yes and now she's investigating

1518
01:01:49,959 --> 01:01:48,769
her which is very sad so she's

1519
01:01:52,599 --> 01:01:49,969
investigating the possibility of

1520
01:01:55,329 --> 01:01:52,609
becoming conscious huh she's being

1521
01:01:57,729 --> 01:01:55,339
excited at the Celebrity Center in Los

1522
01:02:00,050 --> 01:01:57,739
Angeles right now you've had something

1523
01:02:02,460 --> 01:02:00,060
to do with the

1524
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:02,470
protest against Scientology here in

1525
01:02:10,410 --> 01:02:06,400
Sydney Michael and is it people up there

1526
01:02:14,250 --> 01:02:10,420
if you care to visit our old site which

1527
01:02:15,900 --> 01:02:14,260
is penguin podcast wordpress com you can

1528
01:02:18,900 --> 01:02:15,910
actually see Michaels report about the

1529
01:02:23,940 --> 01:02:18,910
protest in Sydney and does knowledge the

1530
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:23,950
anonymous protein yeah so yeah I hope

1531
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:25,690
she isn't getting involved with the

1532
01:02:29,609 --> 01:02:27,730
Church of Scientology because I've

1533
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:29,619
always even though I'm not a massive fan

1534
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:31,359
of pink though always thought she seemed

1535
01:02:38,490 --> 01:02:36,490
to be quite right and she is yes was in

1536
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:38,500
figure honestly but of course her fans

1537
01:02:43,710 --> 01:02:41,770
will will pick up on this and it's true

1538
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:43,720
you know if you have a celebrity status

1539
01:02:49,710 --> 01:02:47,770
people can do regard you as being

1540
01:02:51,210 --> 01:02:49,720
grateful right or something like this

1541
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:51,220
that's actually really disappointing

1542
01:02:55,740 --> 01:02:53,920
Michael because i sat in on an interview

1543
01:02:56,730 --> 01:02:55,750
that she did with Andrew Denton and for

1544
01:02:58,670 --> 01:02:56,740
those of you who don't know Andrew

1545
01:03:05,820 --> 01:02:58,680
Denton it is a highly respected

1546
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:05,830
journalist and James boat oh sure that's

1547
01:03:10,260 --> 01:03:08,770
a two-leg to watch them they're gone

1548
01:03:12,530 --> 01:03:10,270
i'll have that that's a beer from

1549
01:03:14,940 --> 01:03:12,540
Tasmania's William thank you very much

1550
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:14,950
most popular be there and growing

1551
01:03:20,250 --> 01:03:17,050
everywhere else it's not just the draft

1552
01:03:22,589 --> 01:03:20,260
that you've got ya there any 216 through

1553
01:03:27,450 --> 01:03:22,599
media the dollar oh great well show you

1554
01:03:29,490 --> 01:03:27,460
thank thank you thanks a lot she

1555
01:03:31,290 --> 01:03:29,500
believed that in Richard for the pot but

1556
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:31,300
think tank would likely thanks James

1557
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:33,760
reload for this section the skeptic so

1558
01:03:37,530 --> 01:03:35,770
cheers for those of you that don't know

1559
01:03:40,910 --> 01:03:37,540
what just happened we just got given

1560
01:03:46,410 --> 01:03:44,190
how's it taste Richard we've champagne

1561
01:03:47,309 --> 01:03:46,420
not that beer from Tasmania and now

1562
01:03:49,049 --> 01:03:47,319
we've lost the strain of our

1563
01:03:50,670 --> 01:03:49,059
conversation pink and Scientology of

1564
01:03:53,099 --> 01:03:50,680
course I was going to say that i sat in

1565
01:03:54,479 --> 01:03:53,109
on a interview with her that was done by

1566
01:03:58,229 --> 01:03:54,489
Andrew Denton who was a well-known

1567
01:04:00,269 --> 01:03:58,239
Australian personality oh he's like that

1568
01:04:02,579 --> 01:04:00,279
I think Andrew Denton is one of the best

1569
01:04:05,069 --> 01:04:02,589
interviewers in the world he is at his

1570
01:04:07,979 --> 01:04:05,079
intention is incredible he is and he

1571
01:04:11,519 --> 01:04:07,989
recently made a documentary film be

1572
01:04:13,019 --> 01:04:11,529
called God is on my god on my side which

1573
01:04:15,049 --> 01:04:13,029
people should look up it's very

1574
01:04:18,539 --> 01:04:15,059
interesting it's an exploration of

1575
01:04:20,849 --> 01:04:18,549
religious fanaticism and TV evangelism

1576
01:04:23,489 --> 01:04:20,859
he went to a religious conference in

1577
01:04:26,249 --> 01:04:23,499
America I boyington yes you did yeah

1578
01:04:29,309 --> 01:04:26,259
anyway no it was sort of like the Dragon

1579
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:29,319
Con for Religious broadcasters tell you

1580
01:04:33,569 --> 01:04:31,210
that yeah that's right i'm angela cage

1581
01:04:35,609 --> 01:04:33,579
but i sat in on a ninja game you did

1582
01:04:38,190 --> 01:04:35,619
with pink and she was really smart and

1583
01:04:40,289 --> 01:04:38,200
sassy and I was quite impressed by her

1584
01:04:42,479 --> 01:04:40,299
and I'm not a huge amount of a music

1585
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:42,489
either but after that I had some respect

1586
01:04:46,979 --> 01:04:44,650
for her but on the board yeah certainly

1587
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:46,989
fats well let's see how plant and pans

1588
01:04:54,959 --> 01:04:50,410
out yeah went to another story yep I had

1589
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:54,969
a really good segue been no because I

1590
01:04:58,289 --> 01:04:55,839
was going to talk about pan

1591
01:04:59,480 --> 01:04:58,299
pharmaceuticals when he said let's see

1592
01:05:01,730 --> 01:04:59,490
how it pans out

1593
01:05:04,190 --> 01:05:01,740
thinking of that yes going hand

1594
01:05:06,830 --> 01:05:04,200
pharmaceuticals no Michael sorry no no I

1595
01:05:08,330 --> 01:05:06,840
think yours is better all right well

1596
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:08,340
this is this has been a huge story in

1597
01:05:15,290 --> 01:05:13,440
Australia for the last 17 years we had

1598
01:05:17,359 --> 01:05:15,300
one of the world's biggest manufacturers

1599
01:05:19,370 --> 01:05:17,369
of herbal medicines and alternative

1600
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:19,380
therapies a place called pan

1601
01:05:24,620 --> 01:05:20,970
pharmaceuticals and it was closed down

1602
01:05:27,850 --> 01:05:24,630
by our regulatory body known as the TGA

1603
01:05:32,540 --> 01:05:27,860
which is the same as the FDA in America

1604
01:05:36,050 --> 01:05:32,550
back in two thousand and one was because

1605
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:36,060
it was found that there it was found

1606
01:05:42,170 --> 01:05:38,970
that one of the very popular drugs is a

1607
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:42,180
travel is a medicine to help travel

1608
01:05:47,030 --> 01:05:43,770
sickness and it's called chava calm and

1609
01:05:49,010 --> 01:05:47,040
there was reports of adverse effects and

1610
01:05:50,930 --> 01:05:49,020
28 people were hospitalized with

1611
01:05:52,790 --> 01:05:50,940
psychosis and with blackouts and with

1612
01:05:55,070 --> 01:05:52,800
hallucinations and when the

1613
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:55,080
investigation was done by the TGA it was

1614
01:06:00,520 --> 01:05:57,210
found that they their pills had between

1615
01:06:03,980 --> 01:06:00,530
naught and seven hundred percent of the

1616
01:06:05,150 --> 01:06:03,990
active ingredient and apparently it was

1617
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:05,160
eventually to adapt to the fact that

1618
01:06:10,170 --> 01:06:06,890
they just weren't stirring the mixture

1619
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:10,180
before they put it into the little pills

1620
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:12,400
so in any case all of their products

1621
01:06:18,230 --> 01:06:15,370
were recalled eventually in 2003 they

1622
01:06:20,190 --> 01:06:18,240
went into liquidation they went bankrupt

1623
01:06:21,950 --> 01:06:20,200
they were charged with something like

1624
01:06:26,310 --> 01:06:21,960
thirty four cases of negligence and

1625
01:06:30,060 --> 01:06:26,320
grievous bodily harm etc the trial

1626
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:30,070
finally finished today and and the

1627
01:06:39,069 --> 01:06:35,620
basically what happened was in November

1628
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:39,079
2005 they pleaded guilty to 24 charges

1629
01:06:42,730 --> 01:06:41,450
relating to supplying defective

1630
01:06:46,779 --> 01:06:42,740
medication and they'll find three

1631
01:06:50,140 --> 01:06:46,789
million dollars and the CEO and owner of

1632
01:06:52,750 --> 01:06:50,150
the company decided that the TGA had had

1633
01:06:56,890 --> 01:06:52,760
a vendetta against him and it was just a

1634
01:06:59,620 --> 01:06:56,900
witch hunt so he then sued them and that

1635
01:07:02,740 --> 01:06:59,630
happened today that the ruling came down

1636
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:02,750
today it was settled between the

1637
01:07:08,500 --> 01:07:05,210
Australian Securities Commission and the

1638
01:07:11,049 --> 01:07:08,510
TGA and himself he was eventually find

1639
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:11,059
ten million dollars for five offences

1640
01:07:18,819 --> 01:07:15,920
however the judge awarded him 55 million

1641
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:18,829
dollars in compensation five million of

1642
01:07:23,650 --> 01:07:21,650
which is going to his legal team and on

1643
01:07:27,299 --> 01:07:23,660
top of that the charges against him have

1644
01:07:29,650 --> 01:07:27,309
been dropped so this is not good for

1645
01:07:31,359 --> 01:07:29,660
alternative medicine in this country

1646
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:31,369
because now it looks like he's been

1647
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:33,650
vindicated you need it is good for two

1648
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:39,170
well yes but no I mean yeah so he's now

1649
01:07:46,350 --> 01:07:40,970
come out and his lawyer is already

1650
01:07:48,390 --> 01:07:46,360
starting a case a class-action suit

1651
01:07:51,350 --> 01:07:48,400
where they've got already something like

1652
01:07:54,210 --> 01:07:51,360
200 people on the books which include

1653
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:54,220
cam practitioners alternative medicine

1654
01:07:59,640 --> 01:07:56,770
people who all say they lost money and

1655
01:08:01,680 --> 01:07:59,650
they lost clients after pan was closed

1656
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:01,690
down so they now want to see the

1657
01:08:05,670 --> 01:08:03,490
Australian Government for loss of money

1658
01:08:07,230 --> 01:08:05,680
and loss of business and they're

1659
01:08:09,780 --> 01:08:07,240
starting to already put that together

1660
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:09,790
they've probably got 20,000 pages worth

1661
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:12,610
of evidence to take to port now somehow

1662
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:14,410
the our Australian government is paying

1663
01:08:20,940 --> 01:08:16,570
him 55 million bucks it could be an

1664
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:20,950
appeal but they settled it so it wasn't

1665
01:08:24,180 --> 01:08:22,570
it wasn't the judge's decision they

1666
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:24,190
settled they agreed to give him 45

1667
01:08:30,330 --> 01:08:26,080
million dollars wish someone would agree

1668
01:08:32,460 --> 01:08:30,340
to give me I may say I would agree to

1669
01:08:34,110 --> 01:08:32,470
that the other thing is what's

1670
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:34,120
interesting about this case now is

1671
01:08:37,650 --> 01:08:36,250
already all the little all the blogs and

1672
01:08:40,440 --> 01:08:37,660
websites have started up with the big

1673
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:40,450
pharma conspiracy right and I found a

1674
01:08:45,630 --> 01:08:43,810
couple of things today on a on a blog

1675
01:08:47,010 --> 01:08:45,640
and I was making so many gasping noises

1676
01:08:49,650 --> 01:08:47,020
at work that people thought I was

1677
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:49,660
something wrong with me but someone had

1678
01:08:55,820 --> 01:08:52,210
written that the TGA the Therapeutic

1679
01:08:59,370 --> 01:08:55,830
Goods Administration drug masters and

1680
01:09:01,260 --> 01:08:59,380
the TGA and i quote works for the health

1681
01:09:02,730 --> 01:09:01,270
of the drug companies bank accounts and

1682
01:09:05,550 --> 01:09:02,740
not for the personal health of

1683
01:09:08,170 --> 01:09:05,560
Australian citizens this is an old story

1684
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:08,180
of course when when in

1685
01:09:14,260 --> 01:09:10,810
like the last refuge of the scoundrel

1686
01:09:15,370 --> 01:09:14,270
conspiracy theories yeah really is well

1687
01:09:16,810 --> 01:09:15,380
the other thing that was mentioned on

1688
01:09:18,730 --> 01:09:16,820
this website which I thought was quite

1689
01:09:20,620 --> 01:09:18,740
interesting was apparently this

1690
01:09:23,500 --> 01:09:20,630
gentleman's name i can't recall Richard

1691
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:23,510
you know it it's Jim cell since Ellen

1692
01:09:29,770 --> 01:09:27,650
Jim Celine Jim Salim yeah he applied to

1693
01:09:33,220 --> 01:09:29,780
set up a company very similar to pan

1694
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:33,230
pharmaceuticals in Vietnam several years

1695
01:09:39,250 --> 01:09:35,930
ago and the TGA quashed that immediately

1696
01:09:42,370 --> 01:09:39,260
based on his previous offenses and what

1697
01:09:44,470 --> 01:09:42,380
had been charged for so he wasn't able

1698
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:44,480
to do that and on this website now it

1699
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:46,370
says that isn't it interesting that

1700
01:09:50,860 --> 01:09:49,370
since that time some of the big

1701
01:09:53,440 --> 01:09:50,870
pharmaceuticals have set up shop in

1702
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:53,450
Vietnam and Jim hasn't been able to so

1703
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:55,130
obviously it's a big pharma conspiracy

1704
01:10:01,950 --> 01:09:57,770
conspiracy theories again yeah it's the

1705
01:10:05,890 --> 01:10:01,960
old you're just a stooge you're a liar I

1706
01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:05,900
should declare that i work in science so

1707
01:10:10,270 --> 01:10:07,490
i use some of these pharmaceutical

1708
01:10:13,030 --> 01:10:10,280
companies products so perhaps i am a big

1709
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:13,040
pharma stage you know I know I never

1710
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:16,850
know Michael I knew it so Michael what

1711
01:10:22,690 --> 01:10:19,210
have you got there no I have a story

1712
01:10:24,100 --> 01:10:22,700
from Central Africa that accusations

1713
01:10:27,340 --> 01:10:24,110
that a soccer player was using

1714
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:27,350
witchcraft during a match eastern Congo

1715
01:10:33,100 --> 01:10:30,800
Sparkle right to kill 13 people the UN

1716
01:10:36,220 --> 01:10:33,110
funded radio station reported this on

1717
01:10:40,450 --> 01:10:36,230
Monday and most of the victims were

1718
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:40,460
between the ages of 11 and 16 oh wow God

1719
01:10:44,710 --> 01:10:42,530
and I think that's the most upsetting

1720
01:10:46,020 --> 01:10:44,720
thing here's the segue this reminds me

1721
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:46,030
of

1722
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:49,840
site what's the harm met yes I'm

1723
01:10:53,220 --> 01:10:51,250
familiar with that sorry it's a

1724
01:10:56,820 --> 01:10:53,230
brilliant side people out there please

1725
01:10:58,530 --> 01:10:56,830
is it what's the harm NP but that's

1726
01:11:00,720 --> 01:10:58,540
that's horrifying it again it just

1727
01:11:03,300 --> 01:11:00,730
brings home the fact that again people

1728
01:11:05,900 --> 01:11:03,310
say to me yeah well so it might not be

1729
01:11:08,190 --> 01:11:05,910
true but what's the arm well hello

1730
01:11:11,190 --> 01:11:08,200
absolutely and that's one of the things

1731
01:11:14,220 --> 01:11:11,200
about you know certain countries they

1732
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:14,230
have certain superstitions and they need

1733
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:16,570
to promote science reason and critical

1734
01:11:21,870 --> 01:11:19,210
thinking because you know looking at

1735
01:11:24,690 --> 01:11:21,880
this and so many young people have died

1736
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:24,700
because of it yeah it's not acceptable

1737
01:11:30,150 --> 01:11:27,610
as far as I'm concerned that reminds me

1738
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:30,160
of a friend of mine at work his his

1739
01:11:33,630 --> 01:11:32,170
in-laws gave him a t-shirt recently and

1740
01:11:35,010 --> 01:11:33,640
his triscuits wear it outside of the

1741
01:11:37,050 --> 01:11:35,020
house when I tell you what it says

1742
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:37,060
you'll understand why oh yes written on

1743
01:11:45,770 --> 01:11:39,010
the front of it is too stupid to

1744
01:11:51,900 --> 01:11:48,480
he's too scared to wear it outside of

1745
01:11:54,450 --> 01:11:51,910
the house making free why so Rachel

1746
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:54,460
another story I didn't have another

1747
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:56,050
story without oh so Michael another

1748
01:12:01,950 --> 01:11:59,440
story okay I'm this my last story and

1749
01:12:05,610 --> 01:12:01,960
apparently scientists have discovered

1750
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:05,620
that going vegetarian could be bad for

1751
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:08,610
your brain with those on a meat-free

1752
01:12:16,410 --> 01:12:12,250
diet six times more likely to suffer

1753
01:12:19,050 --> 01:12:16,420
brain shrinkage oh really what now this

1754
01:12:24,540 --> 01:12:19,060
is due to the fact that vitamin b12

1755
01:12:28,060 --> 01:12:24,550
deficiency can cause this and yeah this

1756
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:28,070
is a study that's recently taken close

1757
01:12:33,399 --> 01:12:29,810
is this does this honey happen during

1758
01:12:34,839 --> 01:12:33,409
development so if you as a child if

1759
01:12:36,550 --> 01:12:34,849
you're a vegetarian it's a problem or is

1760
01:12:39,310 --> 01:12:36,560
it a problem across the board this is

1761
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:39,320
from The Times of India that's right oh

1762
01:12:44,140 --> 01:12:41,449
wow melbourne scientists have discovered

1763
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:44,150
that going veggie could be bad for your

1764
01:12:51,010 --> 01:12:48,130
brain with a meat-free diet okay Wow

1765
01:12:54,250 --> 01:12:51,020
there was one very important part of

1766
01:12:58,240 --> 01:12:54,260
this study that I had to reflect on that

1767
01:13:01,500 --> 01:12:58,250
be does less damage than wine according

1768
01:13:05,260 --> 01:13:01,510
to a study in alcohol and alcoholism

1769
01:13:08,350 --> 01:13:05,270
that lady another beer I'm drinking

1770
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:08,360
champagne everyone so what's that going

1771
01:13:13,959 --> 01:13:11,290
to do to me more damage than you

1772
01:13:16,270 --> 01:13:13,969
unfortunately yes but it makes me feel

1773
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:16,280
better and it makes bubbles make you

1774
01:13:22,930 --> 01:13:20,090
laugh Richard do they do in later thank

1775
01:13:25,149 --> 01:13:22,940
you Michael thank you dr. Rachel thank

1776
01:13:27,729 --> 01:13:25,159
you it has been a fantastic first think

1777
01:13:29,620 --> 01:13:27,739
tank for the new skeptic zone it was a

1778
01:13:31,060 --> 01:13:29,630
pleasure it was a pleasure and now I

1779
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:31,070
think we're probably going to find

1780
01:13:34,899 --> 01:13:33,170
something to eat now we're going to go

1781
01:13:36,609 --> 01:13:34,909
and try and win the metro Richard our

1782
01:13:39,069 --> 01:13:36,619
way oh yes we're going to go in the

1783
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:39,079
Metro raffle see if we can minute win a

1784
01:13:43,629 --> 01:13:41,449
major and have another BBQ yes sounds

1785
01:14:10,140 --> 01:13:43,639
good to me it's the Australian thing to

1786
01:14:16,810 --> 01:14:13,750
hi I'm dr. ginger Campbell I started the

1787
01:14:19,419 --> 01:14:16,820
brain science podcast in December 2006

1788
01:14:21,850 --> 01:14:19,429
with the tagline the show for everyone

1789
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:21,860
who has a brain because you don't need a

1790
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:25,730
PhD to enjoy my podcast all you need is

1791
01:14:31,930 --> 01:14:29,090
curiosity about how our brains make us

1792
01:14:34,930 --> 01:14:31,940
who we are the brain science podcast is

1793
01:14:37,359 --> 01:14:34,940
not a self-help show but understanding

1794
01:14:40,450 --> 01:14:37,369
how the brain works will give you useful

1795
01:14:43,390 --> 01:14:40,460
insights into your own behavior and the

1796
01:14:45,220 --> 01:14:43,400
behavior of others on the show I talk

1797
01:14:48,180 --> 01:14:45,230
about the latest books about the brain

1798
01:14:50,620 --> 01:14:48,190
and I interview leading scientists of

1799
01:14:53,470 --> 01:14:50,630
course I would love to be discovered by

1800
01:14:56,589 --> 01:14:53,480
NPR but until then you can find the

1801
01:15:10,670 --> 01:14:56,599
brain science podcast in iTunes and at

1802
01:15:16,980 --> 01:15:14,460
Richard I am totally zoned out right now

1803
01:15:19,230 --> 01:15:16,990
that was an incredible first episode of

1804
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:19,240
the skeptics on your zoned out well I'm

1805
01:15:27,540 --> 01:15:25,210
zoned in welcome back hey now getting

1806
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:27,550
skeptical on my own skepticism over time

1807
01:15:32,490 --> 01:15:29,890
and now I mean I'm in the zone now

1808
01:15:35,790 --> 01:15:32,500
Stefan have you visited our website www

1809
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:35,800
skeptic zone TV visited it I've

1810
01:15:40,470 --> 01:15:38,050
registered the domain name so you didn't

1811
01:15:43,140 --> 01:15:40,480
know did you know and you probably did

1812
01:15:44,910 --> 01:15:43,150
there's a blog there yes and the Flickr

1813
01:15:46,890 --> 01:15:44,920
site so you can see photographs you can

1814
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:46,900
even see us doing this right now we are

1815
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:48,880
fully web two point oh if I'd here in

1816
01:15:54,990 --> 01:15:51,760
the zone web two point oh is that the

1817
01:15:56,490 --> 01:15:55,000
latest maybe not for you by now on it's

1818
01:15:58,950 --> 01:15:56,500
on a half or something like that now

1819
01:16:01,680 --> 01:15:58,960
we're creating a whole new web for slc a

1820
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:01,690
whole new zone I think so it's what a

1821
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:03,730
great episode and I'm looking forward to

1822
01:16:07,650 --> 01:16:05,530
a whole new series now so we've got a

1823
01:16:09,660 --> 01:16:07,660
lot coming up and stretching on and on

1824
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:09,670
and not with lots of interviews already

1825
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:11,290
lined up ready to go we're going to be

1826
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:12,970
interviewing some people like dr.

1827
01:16:17,490 --> 01:16:15,130
eugenie spot yeah National Center for

1828
01:16:19,410 --> 01:16:17,500
Science Education pretty soon I've heard

1829
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:19,420
of you GD Scott she's great she's

1830
01:16:22,470 --> 01:16:20,770
wonderful she's one of these people who

1831
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:22,480
fights the red bag creationists out

1832
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:27,130
there and fight on her hands she does a

1833
01:16:31,290 --> 01:16:29,770
quick mention those of you in Sydney and

1834
01:16:33,330 --> 01:16:31,300
especially those of you who go to

1835
01:16:34,820 --> 01:16:33,340
Macquarie University there's a new

1836
01:16:39,900 --> 01:16:34,830
skeptics group there if you go to

1837
01:16:42,270 --> 01:16:39,910
Macquarie skeptics homestead com or

1838
01:16:44,010 --> 01:16:42,280
Google Macquarie skeptics brand new

1839
01:16:45,450 --> 01:16:44,020
group they've got some meetings coming

1840
01:16:47,250 --> 01:16:45,460
up and I'm even giving a talk how

1841
01:16:48,750 --> 01:16:47,260
awesome yeah let's just up the road

1842
01:16:50,910 --> 01:16:48,760
that's not far from that is less we

1843
01:16:53,670 --> 01:16:50,920
actually within the zone it's in the

1844
01:16:55,050 --> 01:16:53,680
zone that's great yeah now that is very

1845
01:16:56,910 --> 01:16:55,060
very close to here after y'all come

1846
01:16:58,770 --> 01:16:56,920
along excellent step well I'll see you

1847
01:17:00,390 --> 01:16:58,780
there and I'll see or not you'll hear us

1848
01:17:02,070 --> 01:17:00,400
in a couple of weeks in the next episode

1849
01:17:04,260 --> 01:17:02,080
awesome well thank you everyone for

1850
01:17:04,810 --> 01:17:04,270
listening it's great to be back and we

1851
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:04,820
got a great

1852
01:17:14,049 --> 01:17:07,130
a bunch of shows coming up over the next

1853
01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:16,209
you've been listening to the skeptic

1854
01:17:24,009 --> 01:17:20,239
zone visit our website at www skeptics

1855
01:17:31,150 --> 01:17:24,019
on TV for comments contacts and extra

1856
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:35,979
check the lawn